Stance and ROE How to use in game

Question about Setting Stance and ROE.

What is the ACTUAL practical use of these settings for each unit type? Not factoring unit type, my assumptions(how I play them in the game) are below.

With or without BUG 666 are strike-craft special and need specific setting to perform optimal?

Run
EvasiveStance
PassiveROE

–Fight Hard
AggressiveStance
OffensiveROE

–Hold your ground as long as you can
NeutralStance
DefensiveROE

Well without knowing the exact numbers (never checked for em) as my hw RM modding experience was limited to sound editing.

I can only quote you what I read in the official patch notes and of statements made by bitvenom, or what I experienced first hand ingame:

The idea for the different stances was that each stance made units behave differently.

For instance: Aggressive stances would reduce their speed but enhance their damage while lowering their defensive powers. Squadrons would stick to their formations no matter what (bug 666 ruined that ofc.) Imagine it as in Freespace2 where you could adjust your fighters settings. Either get speed but be lesser shields and weapon power. And vice versa. Aggressive works best when you’re facing a inferior force and want to destroy them as quickly as possible.

Neutral stances: Units would be well adjusted to a 50% boost on anything. Power levels would be adjusted to have everything equally set… Lesser speed, lesser shields, lesser weapon power… But still the best setting to use if you’re outnumbered or superior in force and want your units to survive as long as possible.

Evasive stances: Are most commonly used when you determine that your forces are losing a fight and you want to get them out of harms way as quickly as possible. It also enhances the chances that they evade weapons fire or outrun their opponents which are in a different stance other than evasive.
In that stance they also break their formation frequently and engage 1on1 what ever you assign them to. It gives units a general speed buff.

Scripting wise for mission design it does make sense to use that stance to simulate some sort of squadron panic (for fighters) as they will break their formations.

As for bug 666: That fix which was recently released is remarkable. Before the fix I never really noticed a difference as to the vanilla classic games… But with it I had seen the difference. Fights felt entirely different. Even the AI forces felt different. It is an unofficial patch well deserved. @bitvenom I just hope that he might someday get us that official patch update fixing that and other aspects of the game. Even an incomplete patch might be an improvement to this game at this point. And as opt. patch surely no harm can get done.

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So I can’t give you details of how they work now exactly since I haven’t touched the game since I played your SP mission, I can give you details of how they worked in the original.

So stances are a HW2 change,.passive meant they didn’t move from where they sat, neutral meant they would fire and follow if the ship got close enough, and aggressive was follow and fire until one of you was dead. Now in HW2 there were no real ROE the stances did that work. Every weapon would do full damage all the time regardless of stance, HW2 didn’t incorporate damage reduction or speed changes.

So ROE was more from the HW1 game, they had specific purposes and worked with the formations in varying ways. Defensive was to speed up the ship, reduce overall weapon damage (power goes to speed), and cause it to jink more and split out of formation with at least 1 other ship as teams to keep your ships in the fight as long as possible. Neutral would have your ships fire on enemies in their firing range without you targeting, have them balance power and speed, and not fly off after an enemy. Aggressive was to put weapons at the most damage, speed reduced, and chase any target selected, switching targets and chasing as targets died.

I will see if I can convince myself to take a look at how it works now in HW:RM but it is a bastardized version of both with neither doing a very good job of emulating the original games.

I am working on a HW2 RM ai mod, and just want to program the AI to micro these settings based on the situation. SO What I am curious about is what is optimal for multi player games with humans… who uses the setting and why? e.g. When I send back all my strike craft to repair I typical go:
EvasiveStance
PassiveROE

to get home quicker.

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In my experience humans in mp don’t seem you be using them at all also thanks to 666 bug that most people don’t even know about.

I can only speak for myself here when I’m telling you that I used evasive only on single squads when they had only 1 or 2 fighters remaining and sent em back for docking procedures. If I had some engagements going with superior numbers or facing no opposition (harvester raids) then I used aggressive to get the job done as quickly as possible in order to diminish the time the opponent had for any responsive actions.

Otherwise I kept my units at neutral to last as long as possible and inflict the most damage as possible over a certain duration of time.

But each player might handle this different in MP. Making your question somewhat obsolete.

that is helpful thanks! Had not thought about if harvesting raid what to do… “get ready AI you’re getting an UPGRADE!”

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I have effectively gotten my new AI to do a human style frigate rush build on medium map (nearly chewed up the cheating AI with no cheats… ). The resource controllers now park at optimal distance from asteroids… MS will try to align best as possible, carriers effectively retreat before being attacked if they have DD or BC coming in…

Controllers and Carriers move at EvasiveStance and switch to AggressiveStance when parked.

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I should have added… this is all tested in multi player so it can be done with COOP friends.

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That does sound very good and crucial even… The HW :RM AI was a joke… In many ways I even felt that the HW1 vanilla AI used to be superior compared to both the HW2 V and HW: RM ai but that’s also thanks to Hyperspace having no costs or barely any. If you want to enhance your AI and make it appear even more unpredictable. Then check out HW1V AI behaviors. I truly miss those MS raids or potential Shipyard raids now in Hw2 timeline. I don’t think Hyperspace should cost any money or least only half of it… With HW2 Relic removed a vital strategic game asset of the game.

if @Cloaked has not finished the 666 fix mod by the time i release I will include the fix in my mod to alow AI to play more effectively and then remove it once his is out.

I have AI hyper-spacing, mining, cloaking, and using shields more effectively.

They also have more than 1 attack path and will often flank if being attacked.

Adding more build orders now that i have the foundation done… just a matter of trying the BO out on different maps and tuning soon!

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Amen to that…Anyway the way I read it @Cloaked can’t fix it… It would require @Bitvenom the last loyal @GBX fan of Homeworld with access to the source code to get fixes done. But seeing how they pressure him for their upcoming projects of Gearbox and ofc.his own family duties I doubt we will ever see another official GBX fix… He is just but one man… 1 Man can’t change the fate of an entire people.

As usual GBX CEO’s let their fan base hanging in the air… That has been this case since Alien Colonial Marines if not even sooner. I hate capitalism so much. Ruined my own job career back in 2009 during the financial crisis.

I changed the stances to have a larger tactical value and having the AI use them effectively would be a great addition.

Evasive, low fire rate, very high speed, essentially a travel mode (all power to engines)
Neutral, balanced normal behavior
Aggressive, high fire rate, high regen, low maneuverability (battle mode)

I need to play around with your logic to see how it would adapt._

You guys musta missed the post in the HWR News section. Go check it out! :slight_smile:

Regarding stances, aggressive is generally the best in a fight, evasive is best for running away.
ROE is preference. I use offensive/defensive/passive as needed.
With 666 finally fixed, formations work as intended so putting hw1 fighters in a Claw or X formation of about 5 will beat loose fighters. Heres some more info from the 2.0 patch balance changes:

Several features from hw1c have been brought back and added to all the races. Aggressive/Neutral/Evasive Stance’s to boost damage or speed. Formation’s have small damage/accuracy/speed modifiers for different ships. Balistic/simulation features, for example idle ships are generally a lot easier to hit than moving ships now. Useful scuttle blast damage for most ships. This all adds a lot of depth to the game.

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Getting super excited for the fix!

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Ran some test, see post for results.

For you multi player, how do you micro your fighters to gain an edge? I was not able to over the AI.