Stop nerfing without giving alternatives

Gearbox please listen. In my opinion the reason why you get so much negative backlash for balance changes and patches is because you just nerf / change without giving alternatvies.

Stop this behaviour and most people will understand you!

Right now you just kills builds.

You are still working on killing Fl4k without giving players options to make him viable besides sticking to the same playstyle. Even if it is still less viable.


There is a lot of alternatives.

You people are just mad because you can’t kill a boss in less than a min anymore and you think boss fights were designed so that you have to kill them in a matter of secs, then complain that the game is “too easy”.


Alternatives exist for sure. I’m having fun clearing TVHM M3 with pet flak build. It’s viable now post changes :).

1 Like

You do realize that all nerfed characters can still murder bosses almost equally as fast right? This is more about mobbing.


Do you mind sharing that, im working on the same thing right now!

Exactly this

The whole response of you is based on assumptions.

You dont know my character. Dont know my build. You dont know my guns. Your whole reposne is ueseless and even if you would know, it would be off topic. intentionally or not.


Not home right now but I’ll try to remember to post when I get back.

I think the thing is that alternatives are viable but they require very specific gear. The crit build for fl4k was usable without any incredible gear. FL4K’s pet build is viable but it’s more gear specific, thus making it available to less people.

Personally I’m still running around with a Rowan’s call facemelting everything and laughing.

+20% crit rate to any body part gives me a ridiculous clip size. Having 0 points in the now useless leave no trace allows for points into persistant hunter. Not that LnT helped with Rowan’s call anyway, but this just reinforces me using Rowan’s. I’ll throw in the Duc in there sometimes as well just for fun.

One thing I really want to test though is the mega hit build.

No GiTM. Hellwalker shotgun. 5.5k base damage and it ricochets crits. Unblinking eye. Pretty situational build and crazy burst damage, but you can use hellwalker for burst damage, then rowan’s call to get fade away cooldown off as long as you have points in Head Count

Couldn’t you previously do that with LnT and just have infinite ammo on the Hellwalker? Sure the crit was a bit smaller but you could spam it way more…

Sounds like your build needs work if it gets killed by a 2 sec nerf

Idk. Never tried LnT with Hellwalker because it uses up the entire clip every shot. Last I saw, whenever I reached 0 FL4K would reload, even if I was at 0 for half a millisecond. You reach 0 before you get any ammo back, thus prompting the reload. You’d have to interrupt the reload and then fire again, assuming you got a bullet back.

Well I dont think the alternative argument is the correct approach.

So there are YouTube videos showing the impact of the new “Leave No Trace” compared to not speccing in it at all.

There is virtually no difference in the time it took to empty the entire mag when all the shots were crits between the 2.

So instead of asking for alternatives…how about we not make anymore skills a complete waste of points moving forward.


Yeah, it’s a terrible idea to nerf the strong builds before you buff the weak builds. That is not good balancing. You pick a baseline that you want all builds to be close to, you buff the weak builds up to that baseline, and then you nerf the strong builds down to that baseline. I hate the fact that Gearbox is going about balancing all backwards.

The Moze nerfs aren’t really an issue because her best builds are still amazing even after the nerf. But they’ve nerfed FL4K’s best builds considerably, without properly buffing his weakest builds (his pet focused builds) first.

Gearbox badly needs to buff all of the pet focused builds because they are so weak on Mayhem mode right now. Zane’s Clone and Drone, Moze’s Iron Bear, and FL4K’s pets need some serious buffing. They did buff Zane’s clone and drone a bit, but not enough from what I heard.


While I agree, and even have my own thread with over 200 replies before trolls got it locked, there are apparently a lot of people having success with FL4K’s pets on mayhem 3 right now.

I’m not one of them as my gear is not correct for that build, but it is possible

Well thats unfair they are technically doing exactly that, it just seems that what we have in mind as a “good baseline” isnt what they have. They did consistently throw some buffs to the bad builds and nerfed really powerful builds. IMO the entire thing is skewed because of how M3 modifiers are made. You essentially need a really broken build to be fine with anything M3 can throw your way. Which is what players are trying to achieve, and these patches arent making it any easier…


Yeah, I think that is part of the problem. People want builds that are good regardless of what Mayhem mods RNGesus gives them, but it seems like Gearbox doesn’t want that, they want us to either restart until we get good Mayhem mods or to suffer through mayhem mods that totally handicap our builds.

I still think Mayhem mods need a total rethink. The randomized nature has got to go, getting a negative Cryo mod can totally cripple a Cryo Zane build for instance and that is just not good game design. Mayhem mods should be optional, with increasing rewards for turning on negative mayhem mods and decreasing rewards for turning on positive mayhem mods.


I mean thats a fairly specific way of “fixing it” i think the easier solution of just limiting the randomness of the system is enough. -50% to whatever damage is doable, but not if you stack it with +hp and -to primary element of the build… Then its just stupid, and its not like the game doesnt know your build and stuff like that, RNG can be tweeked to not be completely random but random enough to keep it fresh and interesting. I thought thats what they wanted at least…

Their are many viable builds for all the hunters. They just cant nuke bosses instantly so people disregard them as if you should be able to kill bosses in one clip. Lose that mentality and you might actually learn to play for fun! I do agree some skills could use buffs to make them stronger though… Just not to the point they do what Fl4k is now. And if people think they are done nerfing things just wait, more will come before we get a raid boss as to prevent one shotting the hardest content XD

They’d better fix glitches then as well. I had a grenade somehow clip into Troy on Mayhem 3 TVHM mode and it then exploded a stupid amount of times in the span of 0.1 seconds and basically caused him to instagib. The invulnerable phases didn’t even trigger.