[Suggested Feature]: Raid Mode and/or Raids

I want to make a pitch for a new feature for Borderlands 3. Hear me out all the way before you blast me with “Borderlands doesn’t have to be Destiny” replies. I know that and honestly really do not want that. However with Destiny much like after the Launch of Borderlands 1 (started the wave of looter shooters that followed) has opened up a space for playing with more than 4 friends in PvE activities cooperatively. I would very much like to play with my Raid team in a game like this. So here are my two suggestions for solutions to make this happen.

RAID MODE: In this mode you could play with 6 players maybe 8 players if the engine would allow. It would be the same game content but the enemies would be play through 2 tier level already which would make the game not super easy and more enjoyable for the increase in players. This would honestly be the easiest solution and would not require the game to be reinvented much. Also would allow all DLC Characters to be played with a party of original characters in the future.

AND/OR

VAULT RAIDS: Let us say the solution above could not work because engine for BL3 doesn’t allow for X reason. Another cool solution for this would to allow many and future DLC waypoints in some of the worlds to have VAULT waypoints. Here you could Queue up or join 4 other Vault Hunters to Raid a Vault. This would allow Raid bosses to be cooler experiences with more friends for a sort of end game content. Now let me finish with they shouldn’t be a requirement to play with 4 other players I think it would be cool to allow it at an increase of difficulty and rewards. I would also like to say I do not expect this to have complex mechanics like Destiny. I just want some over the top fun like any other BL games with raid boss fights…just with more friends. However I would not mind more mechanic driven fights with Raid bosses but with this game I will take what I can get.

I know this wont appeal to everyone but I really like the idea of playing with more friends at once in one of the game franchise I really enjoy with just some of the most mindless fun.

EDIT: Most people wont read the whole post or my reply. I am not suggesting forcing people to play with more than 4 players or not being able to play solo. Everything I am suggesting would be a “choice” a different mode/way to play the game. Please do understand this is just an additional way to play not make your Borderlands different out of the box.

Thanks

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no. absolutely not.

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Sorry you feel that way.

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We have raid bosses, no need for raids. Stick to good ol fashion borderlands themes

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I’ll be honest- the instant I saw this, I immediately did what you suggested against and went “Destiny Raids Boring, Borderlands Should Be No Like AAAGH!!”

However, after reading I can kinda see where you’re coming from on this? So long as there’s no boring Destiny raid mechanics (I’ve thrown up my feelings on those in other threads- The short version being that standing on pads to shoot at the boss that one shots you if you slip up once gets very old, very quickly). Plus, challenging content that isn’t hardlocked behind a 4 player party requirement keeps things fresh.

The faults I see in this are as follows:
-The game will almost certainly not be designed for 6-8 players.
-Queues are annoying as all hell to deal with considering how hard it is to pair you with people you want, and having no queue system at all (Destiny 1) is not a solution.
-Mechanic driven fights are, in my opinion, a direct contrast to what Borderlands is. Beyond shooting certain parts of a boss to injure it more or disable certain moves (Final Boss of Torgue’s DLC in BL2), fights shouldn’t have anything in them that makes them feel dreadfully slow, or rely too much on any one player in a party.
-No content should be co-op mandatory. This game was marketed as being able to be played Solo or with friends, and making something so difficult that only 4 people could possibly have a chance at defeating it would be counter-intuitive.

Thanks for the interesting discussion topic!

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I agree with the rest that, co-op shouldn’t be mandatory and also that over 4 players is a bad move.

However I think expanding the types of raids is a good idea. Borderlands has tossed up two interesting raid difficulty arena’s. Digistruct Peak and the mutator arena are to me great examples of the way Gearbox adds interesting takes on standard rpg endgames.

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Thanks for at least reading. I am in no way wanting Borderlands to change what it is at the core. This is why I suggested these should be added on top of the current design not designed for these modes. I feel like with the “game is not designed for 6 - 8 players” would easily be fixed with just out of the gate making enemies like I said playthrough 2 difficult. Now you would say the maps are not designed around that and I could counter and say with the over the top nature of the game and BL’s overall “janky” feeling would it really matter if they added this into the already existent game?

I get the queue complaint and I am in no way say both these solutions should be put in place one or the other would be fine also one or the other could very much not work in the game. With all my suggestions like the Vault raids I made it very clear they should be do-able with 4 players the additional player mode should be a choice (This also means if you can do it with 4 players by vanilla nature I mean they can be done solo also). However if Cross-play is to be a thing with BL3 queues matter less IMO as the pool would be bigger.

Again the mechanic driven boss fights I am not suggesting to be changed in BL3 I personally would not mind more interactive fights was all I was saying. That being said pump that boss with 3 times the health and I could care less so long as I could kill it with more people.

With the suggestions I made and noted on here there would be zero content that would lock solo players out of the game/content. Not to mention none of these would in no way alter how people would traditionally play the game solo or 4 players. This is why this would be a different mode a “choice” nothing is forced on you.

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I don’t mean that the game isn’t balanced for 8 players, or that the levels aren’t designed for it- I mean the game is literally designed around the 4 person party. The issue isn’t such a simple solution as to tack on a few more player slots and call it a day.

The pool being bigger doesn’t effect the quality of it- As a matter of fact, putting a bunch of Xbox and PS4 microphones, FPS’s, and internet connections would do more to hinder the quality of the queue than to aid it.

Could you give me an example of what you mean by a more interactive fight (besides a flat stat boost)? Also; the “nothing is forced on you” argument is somewhat flawed considering that while yes, I am not forced to play it, it would be content that would take time away from otherwise regular-borderlands material being created. It’s the same reason that nobody wants PvP borderlands- It just isn’t that type of game, and the fact that it’s “optional content” doesn’t make it fit better with the rest of the game.

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I am very aware the engine could very well not be capable of handling it. I even mention this but again I am just suggestion an idea but considering myself nor you know the limitation of that engine why are we even talking about it? You a BL3 Dev?

This part of your argument I am not sure how to reply considering with or without my suggestion cross-play is all but confirmed to be hitting BL3 with basic 4 player mode like it or not. Also being on the back end of Epic’s design for cross-play I think is proven no in fact it works just fine and will. Also no PvP in this game so does it really matter?

Something more than just shoot boss to kill it by dropping health. Having to drop specific enemies to drop shields of the boss. Or shoot its regenerating arms off to create an opening. This like that. I think a bad example of a BL boss and what not to do is BL 1 last boss. If the boss does not counter or make me feel like it is a threat and all I have to do it sit still and shoot…that to me is boring.

Nothing is forced on you argument is not flawed if you can simply “not play the game that way” it then in turn is not effecting you sorry. You can still play your game. I am not sure why some are so adverse the idea of more people playing together at once. If you do not like it then you simple just play the game in the normal mode. The request wasnt to redesign the game it was to add something ontop of the game. If it can be done cool if not cool. Why fighting against the idea when it would literally do nothing to you’re own experience. It is like me arguing against them making a Steam Version of the game. Please do not do it, it would take time to port it over and take away from you making content…thus forcing flaws into the game.

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Lets say that Destiny went ahead and, instead of having one raid per DLC (with raiding being the entire endgame of Destiny), instead took one of their DLCs and made it an experience that was meant to be played single-player, but could be played with multiple people. Most Destiny fans wouldn’t like that, because that’s one less raid they get to play in the game, and doesn’t really go along with what a Destiny game is.

But oh, no, that’s just the story DLC that’s catered to a more single-player experience. You don’t have to play it. Sure, there’s one less raid and less PvP maps- but why can’t you just embrace a different playstyle an “simply not play the game that way”? Go back to the raids that already exist?

I guarantee you something like that wouldn’t go over well. Neither would taking Borderlands, and trying to twist it into something it isn’t, with mechanics that don’t align to the game’s usual appeal.

By the way, I don’t have to be a BL3 Dev to know that a game built around 4-player co-op won’t be easy to turn into an 8-player co-op experience.

I don’t really know what you tried to say about cross-play. I know it’s coming. What I’m saying is that Xbox and PS4’s typically don’t have mics/connection/FPS that is up to par with PC. I was using that to support my point that if the raid were to have mechanics that required good communication(mics being the main problem here), it would be disadvantageous to play with someone using an Xbox/PS4. Cross-play hasn’t been “proven” to work fine, and is in no way “factual”. Even if it did work fine, there can still be player-side issues that aren’t related to how well the platform is designed.

[quote=“Jodicus, post:9, topic:2145024”]
Also no PvP in this game so does it really matter?
[/quote] As for this, well, yeah. My point exactly. PvP got removed because it was a poorly made mechanic that had nothing to do with Borderlands’ fashion, which is the same way that I can see raids going if they weren’t done in a way that’s more like Borderlands’ style.

100% for raids this give alot of replay value to a game

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I like the fact the devs seem to design the game so that solo players never feel left out. Nothing against a raid mode as long as it doesn’t have any reward a solo player cannot get just as easily or have any bosses solo players cannot also kill (i.e. soloable on a different difficulty setting).

P.S. On the other hand characters/builds may be left behind if they are not thought of as being good enough for raids thus resulting in “balancing” and elitism. “Balancing” and elitism ruin games and their community.

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Anything that excludes solo players from being able to play and reasonably complete it, is not content I would want in the game, no.

I play solo, primarily.

I loathe forced multiplayer.

All well and good if a game is designed specifically as a multiplayer experience.

I simply won’t play it.

But adding non-soloable content to a game that was originally 100% soloable, is a very bad look, and an ugly backhanded slap in the face to the playerbase, period.

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Raid would be optional and it wont stop you to play solo and complete the game

Why would those who want to play coop should suffer from solo players if they can still be able to play the game and finish it solo ? How something that required teamwork and optional is hurting your game ?

And ye it should give something to do things that are harder than usual and required cooperation

If the game cant get a larger player base why wouldent they do it plus raid give extra replayability to a game… its basically just good for the company and good for the players

Threathening to quit a game because of that is ridiculous

You, as a multiplayer… player, do not suffer from everyone else re: solo players getting to play all of the game, just like you.

Your actually getting what you want - content exclusive to your preferred playstyle, would be causing OTHERS to suffer, not the other way around.

Demanding the exclusion of other players from part of the game is the definition of selfishness and arrogance.

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There is no exculsion demanded its self exclusion and you want other not to have fun because you dont like it… that it

This is simply not true at all.

YOU are the one demanding exclusive content.

And then you decry people who want everyone to have access to all the content, as the villains.

I sincerely hope that your posts are deadpan satire.

Sadly, my money is on your being 100% serious.

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So my opinion as long as rewards and certain loot are not locked behind co op raids then I’m all for it.

For me I play Borderlands solo…especially since I’m on PC and there’s a ton of cheating.

yes im 100% seriuos because you are auto excluding yourself its not exculsive content as you pretend , you dont want others to have fun in raids, you dont want the game to innovate/grow, you dont want more players that will bring money to developpers.

Is it so hard to group for a raid/boss fight ? And yes it need reward for the effort needed… You want the reward put the effort for it.

About cheating yes this is a pain in every game you will play. Im pretty with extra money they could get from having a bigger player base they could had an anti cheat of some sort

Developers in interviews have already said they are not going to be enforcing cheating heavily bc it’s not a competitive game.

You dont want to go down the path of The Division where you’re constantly alienating your player base. I’m not saying raids shouldn’t exist…saying players shouldn’t be forced to do them to get certain loot. Prime example: Path of Exile…you can do everything solo or in a group. Borderlands 2 has a great system…you can do raids in a group or solo. 8 people raids is fine but its should be a optional activity.

I dont see what the urgency is for everyone to copy Destiny. Let Destiny be Destiny. If you have rewards locked behind 8 player raids you’re going to have a ton of players who played the first 3 games feel like they have been betrayed.

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