#21

I have spent most of my time in PVE and yesterday I massively noticed thralls that where supposed to attack the Renegade just standing around. At the same time I also noticed that they took out this IDK fog AOE grenade out of advanced mode.
So I figured there could have been a connection like a bug resulting from altering enemy behavior.

So yeah maybe the A.I. is bad in this game but that doesn’t mean all A.I. is completely useless.

#22

I say if someone quits the game, give them a penalty. It’s really annoying. And for disconnects, I guess we just have to deal.

1 Like
#23

The world is moving so fast these days that the man who says it can’t be done is generally interrupted by someone doing it. - Elbert Hubbard

The fact of the matter is, there is a balance somewhere. All it takes for this to fix the entire issue is for the balance to be found. Sure, it may not be perfect, but all it needs to do is improve the situation of losing a player. Which it can do, when given the proper balance. The time argument isn’t that strong of a reason to disagree.

But feel free to keep saying that it’s impossible, when it really isn’t.

#24

I don’t think bots are the answer. They are too weak right now and making them stronger wouldn’t be fair either.

Stern penalties for quitters would be the only answer but then what about legit disconnects? It’s happened to me when my controller died.

#25

Until you lose a game to a team you were beating, who had an OP bot assigned to them…
Or until you lose a game you were winning because an under powered bot replaced your better player and fed…

The bottom line is this is a player vs player game-mode. It should not be decided by filling in an AI character at any point.

If a player leaves, you are at a disadvantage. You’ve been locked in with those players on your team at the start. If one suddenly forgets how to play, you’re still on a team together, and your fate is tied. If they disconnect, they’ve let you down.

In the grand scheme of things one loss from a disconnect isn’t a very big deal. If disconnects are happening constantly then something else needs to be done. But throwing bots into the mix isn’t some enlightened way of solving the problem, it’s cluttering the system and it cheapens the victory for either team.

You’ll have a much louder outcry for removing them than you’ll ever hear to add them.

#26

First paragraph: You don’t seem to understand the fact that this wouldn’t happen if balanced properly…

Second, third, and forth paragraph: that’s a moral argument, not a rational one. Also quite subjective.

Fifth paragraph: that’s unsubstantiated.

#27

I agree with @V0LUM3 where the issue is people dropping games.

Implement a leaver system (in addition to other, harsher penalties). You leave once-twice every 20-30 games? Nothing happens.

If you’re quitting every 4th game, you’re given a behind-the scenes rating (or it can be public, idc). The more leaves/game you have, the more you’re placed with other “leavers”. And you’re only averaged for the previous… 20-30 games you played?

That way, if you straighten up, you can crawl out of your leaver pit.

1 Like
#28

You don’t seem to understand that it can’t be balanced properly. You keep saying it can, but you’re not factoring in aspects of human thinking which cannot be replicated in ANY AI yet. Predicting patterns based on teammate locations, and character class, making decisions of when to run and when to engage, when to fight minions and when to fight players.

You cannot properly balance an AI to ACT like a human, certainly not with the limited processing capabilities we have here.

So, you have to “balance” it with other, objective qualities… like how many shots it will hit in a given time-frame… or tweaking it’s health/damage output numbers. ALL of those options require unfair mathematical input on behalf of the dev as to how well your enemies perform against you.

Basically, that’s a garbage way to lose or win.

And how do you tweak it to perform the same for someone who’s been playing the game for weeks vs someone who got it today? The same way, you just adjust some numbers and “hope” that it comes in line with what’s representative of the skill level of the characters in the game… but you can’t know. And you’re talking about implementing thousands of man-hours of work in order to get to that stage where it’s kind of/sort of close to maybe working a little.

The reality of it is that if the game is anywhere close to balanced with the level of skill of the human combatants, then the AI is going to always be a hindrance to it’s team, or a boon, either dealing more damage than a player would or less, and the longer it’s there, the more it will skew the game… which is already skewed, because of another reason (the disconnect)

So, punish the disconnect, ignore the game for the purposes of ELO, and move along. It’s just one game out of your ELO calculations.

And, yes, it is substantiated, because in this very thread you’ve got more nay-sayers than supporters, and there’s not an outcry anywhere for bots being dropped in other than this thread. So, while it may not have been proven, it’s logically predictable based off of readily available evidence.

But I’m wasting my time here, I was just trying to helpfully explain to you “why” the devs won’t implement it, not trying to convince anyone not to do it… I don’t have to. They won’t. The player base they’re pursuing would eat them alive for it, even if it wasn’t a waste of resources in the first place. And I assure you, they understand how impossible it is with current technology to balance a bot. They won’t be wasting their time.

#29

I’d like a more direct one myself… direct time penalties, like if you choose to leave a game, 30 minute penalty before you can queue up and lose half your XP earned for the next day. And scale the penalty if it’s repeated in the same 24 hour period. Reset it every 24 hours.
No penalty for DCs that reconnect.

Problem solved.

1 Like
#30

You are entirely correct, you cannot balance the skill component of a PvP game…that includes the skill of your human teammates also.

Unless you have a premade team you have NO IDEA what kind of cards you are about to be dealt. The bot may actually be better than the kill joy that just jumped ship leaving you a man short. For all you know the person that left was actually a spider monkey on a suicide mission that wants to kill Ambra 25 times.

You also have no idea regarding the skill level of the opponent. They may be massively better or worse than the bot. They may also be massively better or worse than your human teammates.

Everything in PvP is random unless you play premmade and if you are playing with premmades you are probably not worried about people dropping out.

I mean unless they are going to program it to run to the middle of the stage and just taunt I don’t think bots will effect the balance issue too much. If a computer can play Go, I’m sure it can match the skill of an average player.

Edit: hey man, I do enjoy debating you. Hope all is well

#31

This already exists doesn’t it?

#32

But by your very description, it will. If your bad player drops and suddenly the bot helps your team win, that’s unfair to the other team…

If a good player drops and a bot helps the other team win, that’s unfair to you.

Honestly, the bot AI as it is currently is atrocious, it would certainly feed at almost all skill levels in the game… it really does just randomly wander the map, any player dying repeatedly due to poor decision making can have a huge impact in this game, now have an AI character you can’t even attempt to communicate doing it… it would be horribly frustrating.

I would rather lose a game with four people and a DC than lose a game with four people and a bot that’s feeding the other team making them unnecessarily powerful.

I would also, personally, rather lose a game with 4 players and one DC than win against a team with 4 players and a bot that outperformed the other team, I would feel like they’d been cheated and my win meant nothing.

lol, I’m good, kinda tired… wanna leave work and play Alani, how are you?

#33

Yet if you win against a team with a DC you feel accomplished? Seriously?..

#34

And where did I say that? Like I said, wash the game from the ELO when any team loses, that would include my opponents. You’re just being rude at this point.

But if you want me to address your rude assumption: I’d rather WIN against a team of all human players who had the misfortune of a DC than to win against a team that had a bot shoved on their team that wandered randomly and fed my team kills.

And, if I were to lose to any team because they had a player DC and the bot did, somehow, manage to outperform me and my team, you bet I’d raise a huge storm about it.

#35

I think it’s the same way if you wereon the team of five especially if they are winning. If they suddenly lose a player and we come back that’s not much of an accomplishment. I would still feel cheated,(I know thats not universal. I can’t count the amount of people that tea bag and taunt unbalanced enemy teams. That irks me) as far as an undeserved win.

Also the more common response to losing a player is the disadvantaged team surrenders anyway. At least if they had a bot they may be more likely to stick it out, I would think.

I would even be cool with the bot staying around the sentry to detur backdooring the disadvantaged team.

As far as communication. I play on PS4, I might as well be communicating with a bot BC psn players avoid game chat like spoiled fish.

At the end of the day I think it just an intellectual exercise BC I think the amount of work to implement a competent bot post release is probably a bit much.

On an unrelated note, I’m doing well. I’m having fun learning calderus and playing the game that will not be named when I get tired of waiting on matchmaking on battleborn.

1 Like
#36

Play a match against bots before you comment in this thread. After you go 30-0 against them in a single match you’ll realize you’d rather have nothing on your team than an easy feed for the other team to power level to 10 at the 8 minute mark.

1 Like
#37

Upvote

#38

I’d prefer to see that the disconnecting player gets punished if they don’t reconnect within a few minutes. I’m so sick of arriving to the character select scene only to see one or two players disconnected. Maybe a hidden point system, where if the player passes a certain threshold they can only play with other players who’ve passed that threshold. Playing a full game removes one point, or somesuch.

#39

As it stands right now the quitter has to wait till the match they quit is over right? At least that’s what I experienced the few times I get dropped due to connection issues.

Sometimes you do have to quit a match because of the real World. So maybe an experience and credits earned penalty that last a couple of hours for quitting a match?

But then we would just have players waiting in the spawn zone till the match is over or intentionally feeding.

Maybe letting people have the option join a match already in progress to replace a quitter would be best. A player that joins after a match is half done doesn’t get a loss counted against them if the team they joined loses.

#40

It’s true that they can’t join another match before the one they joined is over, but it’s not like they can’t just browse their favorite website in the meantime. And I know I was warned when me and the wife played co-op and I went away for a couple of minutes, I don’t remember if it said I was going to be kicked if I remained idle, but there seems to be a system in place to keep people from taking up place.

Now, being able to join a match already in progress I wholeheartedly support. It seems strange that Battleborn doesn’t include a function like that from the get-go.