Suggestion to remove certain passives from COMs and artifacts

As we recently have had a number of non-useful anointments removed from the loot pool going forward, I would like to put forward another suggestion that I have not seen anyone make on the forums.

Can we get rid of non-useful or under-used passives on COMs and artifacts?

This actually is one of the more difficult aspects of farming COMs and passives, as there are just SO many combinations of passives and so many passives that just aren’t useful. If the passives are useless or really don’t affect play, why have them in the game in the first place? Further, passives on your COM and artifact can make a pretty big difference in your build, so no one wants a COM or artifact with useless passives.

The benefits of removing them would include improving player QOL and eliminating what is, at least for me, one of the most significant frustrations of farming artifacts. It’s pretty much why I have never farmed artifacts in BL3.

The following is a list that I believe GBX could remove from the game, and players might not even notice that they are gone:

  1. Luck
  2. FFYL movement speed
  3. Melt, ignite, electrocute, and irradiate chance and cryo efficiency
  4. Splash damage and radius (would prefer to just have AOE available on both COMs and artifacts, but if you want to keep splash damage and radius as separate passives on COMs, that would be fine I guess, as long as the AOE passive functioned correctly so that it is not required to be in the second or third slot on the artifact to boost both splash and radius)
  5. Specific elemental resistances (“elemental resistance” already exists and is not that much lower than the specific elemental resistances anyway)
  6. Manufacturer-specific weapon accuracy

I feel certain that I have missed some, but by my count, that’s 15-20 passives that I would perceive to be not desirable. Although I suspect that there would be some disagreement with my opinions above, I do think that GBX has the SHIFT data to indicate the passives actually being used by the player base and could make an informed decision on this - one that is not opinion-based.

My guess is that there are about 5-10 passives that everyone uses or wants to use, if they can find them. The passives I typically want (just OTOH) are movement speed, shield regen/rate, mag size, elemental damage, reload speed, weapon damage, weapon type damage, weapon or manufacturer-specific critical damage, and I’m sure there are a few more.

What does everyone think about this idea and the proposed list of passives that potentially could be targeted?

6 Likes

i use all of those. keep them

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The issue I see with that is that you sometimes might want to boost the splash damage but not the radius because well… For instance, if you are playing Moze, too much splash radius can get you killed.

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I agree , remove Handling too , Manufacture damage because everyone use " Weapon damage " for what ever reason it’s much higher " 28% For all weapon damage " and 12% for Manufacture only )

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I may be wrong but I think they are not exclusive, so you can get 28% weapon damage + 12% manufacture.

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@rodrigonunes97 You are correct that a COM or artifact can roll with both of those passives, however, I think what @hilarious76 was saying was that the manufacturer damage bonus is a much smaller stated percentage (I think 12% at level 60) than the overall weapon damage bonus (28% at level 60).

Unfortunately, as with everything Borderlands, looks can be deceiving. You actually need to understand each character’s damage formula to know which of the bonuses is more effective. I am not implying that I have done or know the math to support that, because I just am not the biggest BL math guy, but there are tons of smart folks on here who do. For Fl4k, my recollection is that their damage formula makes it such that the highest damaging passives go like this:

Weapon-type damage > weapon damage > manufacturer-specific damage

I would refer you this post ([Guide] FL4K's Damage Formula) by @Ratore for more information and the specifics. Please don’t trust me LOL

My recollection is that the order of bonuses for Moze is a little different, though I’m not certain. A quick search of the forums would tell you.

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@jmthsauer I do agree with that. I think I may have said that in the OP, but not quite sure. Splash and splash radius definitely were the most debatable ones I listed. Part of my issue too is that having so many ways to boost splash is just so damn confusing! Splash damage, splash radius, and AOE boosts both - except when it is the first listed passive on the artifact, and then for some reason it only boosts either splash damage OR radius, I can’t remember for certain.

Why? Because Borderlands. I love this game, but some of this kind of stuff can represent a barrier to player fun unless you really do your research and understand the math.

@heat5360 You actively seek out specific elemental resistances as passives on your COMs and artifacts? If so, that’s cool, but my guess would be that most players would be seeking passives that would enhance their builds in some way. I am unclear on how having a high elemental resistance is something people were really going for in this game. Yes, the Transformer exists, but as well all know that shield gives 100% resistance to that element, which is not possible to create via COM or artifact passives.

I completely agree with this. It was a great start getting rid of all the pointless annoints, so I do hope they take your advice and do the same with the passives. I like that they made this game more complex than the previous titles but it is still way too much rng even now. It certainly does take some of the fun out of playing for sure, good luck.

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I’m pretty sure the manufacturer weapon damage is additive, same as regular weapon damage.

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Cryo efficiency is one of the best passives you can get on the Icebreaker artifacts!

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I feel like the manufacturer specific passives need to be merged so that 1 slot offers a % boost to each individual stat that can currently roll on those passives. TBH the only manufacturer passive I even look at is + % damage and much of the time it’s not impactful enough to make me consider using a build around guns from that manufacturer.

As for the mention of wanting the splash damage and splash radius merged as 1 thing. I kind of like them separated as a Moze player. As it stands currently my Moze build cannot use weapons like the Foursum revolver because I tag myself every time I fire the weapon. Complex Root is usable as long as there is cover to duck behind after firing it. The AoE caused puts launchers to shame. On another note GBX needs to buff all launchers damage and splash radius… >.>

Resistance passives IMO could use a boost also to make them a bit more viable. The Damage resistance and elemental resistance blanket ones could use a small boost. The single element ones could use a more substantial boost simply to make it possible to get a 100% resist on an element via those passives as that could open some options for some builds that didn’t seem viable due to self damage.

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I’m sure that’s correct for Fl4k, but I don’t think the damage formula works the same for all VH’s and I seem to remember something specifically about Moze benefitting from mfr and weapon damage bonuses moreso than weapon specific bonuses? Don’t quote me there, obviously.

That’s fair, I get it. My goal here is not to state my personal opinion that “x, y, and z passives are completely useless,” but rather just to start a discussion in the community about whether there are passives that are not generally useful and hopefully GBX will be paying attention. Remember how awful it was to farm Bloods/Hearts of the Ancients in BL2? Not a lot of people used them, but if you did, good luck getting one with the passives to suit your build without using a save editor.

GBX didn’t seem to have any issue removing anointments that it was clear have no real use in gameplay, and so I am hoping they may do the same thing with passives. I’d like to see that debate here so the devs can get some good input!

Unfortunately, because of the way resistances and damage reduction are calculated via “Borderlands math,” unless one of the values that is being used for the calculation of elemental resistance is ACTUALLY 100% elemental resistance (like with the Transformer), elemental resistances don’t stack and 45% + 55% elemental resistance DOES NOT equal 100% elemental resistance. I am pretty sure elemental resistance is calculated inside the parentheses, which means that it ends up being a fraction of a fraction, rather than stacking. But I might be off on that, please correct me if I am.

My opinion, I think manufacturer specific rolls should be removed entirely. The downfall of this would be manufacturer crit being removed. I would suggest a buff to Weapon Crit to make up the loss.

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I would just consolidate where possible. Combine every elemental resist into one state. Weapon manufacturer bonus can just be a straight up manufacturer efficacy stat, increasing all of the stats of that manufacturer by 40-something percent. Maybe even just take all the shield passives and make them “shield efficacy” granting increased stats to capacity, rate, and delay.

If you just combined some of these stats together you could substantially reduce the number of “bad passive”, increase the value of non-damage passives, and avoid removing anything.

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This is kind of what I am hopeful that they will do. There are redundancies, entire omissions (Torgue crit? I understand 100% why they removed that, but still, would it really have been THAT powerful?), and confusing numbers and calculations if you wanted to know how they actually work anyway.

Idk, a crit bonus on a X18 Bangstick would be an absurdity.

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As absurd as 432%? Maybe people would not use that then? :rofl:

That does not apply to most Torgues IMO. When Unforgiven crit-swapping is an 11 year-old concept in your game, who’s worried about balancing around a x18 Bangstick?

I forgot crit-swapping was even a thing lmao

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It has been a LOOOOOONG time since I farmed Gravy. Maybe 6-7 months?