Suggestions on Improving Battleborn

Well, you guys have lost me. There are only a few characters worth anything and they are overpowered. Rath for instance. The others like kleese and ambra are just cannon fodder. Most of the characters are just not competitive and therefore not fun to play.
time to move on to something more equal and fun…

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curious what match types you’ve been playing. kleese is an animal on open maps, or any place where he can hide his shield beacons. linking them together does ridiculous damage to anything inside, as well as nonstop pumps the shield. his secondary skill ability can be set up to drain hsi shields with no helix mutations, making it easily hit 1000 damage with either skill or shield mods on a short cooldown. ambra is a powerful hybrid of support and skill burst damage if played correctly. you can have her orbs not heal and blow up, or dump all of their heals instantly, its a HP BATTERY that you can deploy on the field! how is that not valuable? i think theres a bit more uniqueness to the characters on this and a second look is deserved with a different perspective, at least long enough to get wrecked by a “cannon fodder” toon.

See, that’s not how I’d have put it even though I agree that their heavy-handed nerf focused approach to balancing isn’t right for this game (or any game that has any kind of PvE component).

I’ve been saying for some time now that they need to stop focusing on nerf politics and look at how they can fix the game by sorting out the characters who just aren’t viable. If you balancing by tweaking upward instead of down, when nerfs have to hit, they don’t have to be huge. They can be much more gentle and the overall balancing can be much more sane.

It’s how The Elder Scrolls Online does it. And it works for them! Community sentiment regarding their balancing is super positive, and the community size in ESO is actually on a huge upward swing at the moment, what with the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood content. I think that Gearbox’s balancing team could learn from this to generate good will in the community.

The thing is, going by loads of existing threads, it’s obvious that their rocket-powered nerf hammer approach just isn’t popular. It needs a rethink.

And the thing is? 99~% of the time, a character is only ‘OP’ because people don’t understand the game mechanics well enough to counter them. That people think Miko & Montana are OP together is galling to me. They’re not all that different to the Heavy and Medic in Team Fortress 2, the same counters exist.

ISIC was never ‘OP,’ he got nerfed into the ground.

Ambra was never ‘OP,’ she got nerfed into the ground.

Alani had her health nerfed when that was never the problem.

My primary concern with this game right now is the balancing team. It reminds me of Champions Online and it’s withering, I get the feeling they just don’t know what they’re doing. And that’s not a good feeling to have, it’s a horrible one. Whenever you have balancing teams which are so nerf obsessed that you barely ever see a buff, it destroys communities and the games they’re balancing.

From Warhammer Online to Champions Online, it keeps happening. I don’t understand why a history that dictates that heavy handed nerfing destroys games leads to balancing teams which … use heavy-handed nerfing to destroy their own game.

It really is wearying to me. I love this game. I love it. I love the setting. I love the characters. I adore the levels. I can’t speak highly enough of the dialogue. I think it’s fun, it’s creative, it’s unique, and it’s like nothing else on the market. And I can’t get away from this nagging feeling that the balancing team are going to end it.

I speak like this because I don’t want to lose Battelborn. I want it to continue being vibrant and healthy. It doesn’t need an Overwatch-sized community, it just needs to be sustainable for what it is. But if their balancing team keeps doing this, if they keep alienating people with how they balance PvE by PvP standards, and balance PvP numbers according to methods which are proven time and again to not work? I don’t know…

As I’ve pointed out: There are characters (like almost all of the Rogues) who’re wretchedly underpowered and so far below the baseline that, as you said, no one plays them other than for the novelty of it. And throughout beta and since launch only one character has had a buff, one that didn’t necessarily need it and then had to be toned down again: Ghalt. That doesn’t inspire me with the confidence I want to have.

Where are the buffs for all the characters that just aren’t viable? Why are we only seeing nerfs? Why can’t they tweak upward and go with more gentle nerfs and harder buffs so that everyone can be brought in line that way? From what I’ve seen, all the most popular niche titles balance this way.

At this point, they can’t afford to keep alienating people. At the very least, if they need to keep doing this, it’s absolutely vital and imperative that they separate PvE and PvP balancing.

Please, Gearbox. I’m not a dissenter, here. I was saying exactly these words when I was watching Champions Online’s balancing team drive that game into the ground. The min-maxers fought me on it, but they kept leaving every time they got what they wanted and found out that – shock! – it wasn’t actually what they wanted after all. I stayed on for a long time and pleaded with them…

After a while, I couldn’t stick it any more. It was a ghost town, it’d devolved into loot boxes and a desperate attempt to squeeze money out of people with the game on life support.

I’ve seen that happen to far too many niche games.

Not this one. I really, really, really, really like this one. :I


Maybe that’s true, maybe Kleese has a little utility in some cases. But what of the Rogues? What of Reyna, Whiskey Foxtrot, and Toby? Even Shayne & Aurox is one of the weakest close quarters characters, easily outdone by Rath (who’s one of the most played characters).

The way they’re just concentrating on the occasional nuclear nerf to destroy a character rather than looking at what’s wrong with the other characters isn’t right.

The way that everyone talks about this game, it seems like it’s assumed that any character can go toe to toe with any other character. Sure kleese and ambra are going to lose in a 1v1 every time. But the benefits that those characters add to the team eventually lead to that thing at the end of the match that says “Victory”. Remember that?? Battleborn isnt a shooter where every single player will get a ton of kills, its a shooter where the team’s victory is supposed to be much more important

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I’ll just have to disagree I guess. I certainly don’t agree with every balance decision (and have been vocal on the direction they are going with Alani in particular–not saying changes weren’t needed) and sometimes wish things happened just a little quicker, I think they are doing a stellar job overall, given the size and diversity of the roster.

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Lul, Reyna, Shayne & Aurox, and Whiskey Foxtrot underpowered?

As a Master of Rath who see’s Rath as his personal soul animal, Shayne & Aurox is the bane to Rath when played right. His ability to pull Rath out of Dreadwind, and then stun Rath absolutely melts Rath away. I fear nothing more than that specific CC, even when Gali was a goddess amongst men I feared Shayne & Aurox more.

Whiskey Foxtrot is different, I rarely see people play him well and when I brought this up to a friend of mine he just laughed. We played a couple matches split screen and he went 14-0, 16-2, and 17-2. Whiskey is hard to play as sure, but patience + twitch shooter style gaming= Massive ability to be awesome.

Finally Reyna, I have seen her out heal CR80+ Miko’s and Alani’s, Reyna is likely the single best support the game has to offer. Normally she cannot (or should not) out heal a dedicated healer, but that she has the ability to compete and yet also offer defensive buffs and over shields makes her a truely well rounded support. I played with a CR 70 the other day who mains Reyna and with him at my side as Deande I felt intouchable both in story and PvP, he ended the first match with 1 kill, 3 deaths, and 55 assists!

My point being: A characters ability to kill is not what makes them good. A characters ability to push your team to the oh so sweet taste of victory is. Toby is the only character I noticed in this thread who really needs a buff and he doesn’t need a big one, his Ult is weak AF, other than that he is a very good character as well. If you absolutely need that CoD KDR up high to make you feel like a man again, go play Rath or Oscar Mike. Rath is my love like I said, but there is a reason most people play him, it’s because if you follow his cookie cut out path you can get your KDR up and that is what most people want. Play him (well) with his level 1 mutation and you’re going to assist your team far more, stun 2 people at once for 3 seconds and that lane is yours.

Sorry for the long ass rant on this. :wink:

Not many characters need a buff. Reyna, Whiskey, and Shayne are all fine where they are. Buff Toby’s Ult to make him great. Play Rath or OM if you only care about KDR and not victory. <3


okay, you roll rath and pop your ulti and i’ll yank you out of it with my shayne and aurox skill beat you until i can’t fight toe to toe then vanish, come back when you’re otherwise engaged and finish it. and how can you even say anything about reyna, whiskey or toby, theyre ranged why would they ever voluntarily be in range of rath? EVERYTHING IS SUBJECTIVE to how and where you’re playing. this game isnt a death mathc, you cant win with only assault toons and just cus everyone drinks coke doesnt make it the best. your argument is that you want to argue and thats okay but get some realistic idea of what you’re arguing about and perhaps you might understand that you dont need to be able to go heads up with rath, or any of the others to have a good and competitive match.

do i need to go through a list of why each of these guys is powerful in their own regard? can rath put an overshield+heal+shield on someone at the clutch moment and save them? no he just kills stuff and occasionally a stun or knock up. can rath ranged headshot burst fire do insane damage combined with the close quarter flack-cannon shot damage? no… rath is a melee guy and has to run up on a shooter leaving him open.

all of the toons have a purpose, i cant think of a single toon i havent at some point stopped and wanted to try to play a different way.

A Reyna will never out heal a good alani period as she is the only hero that can come close to Miko’s massive 65k heal marks in games. One late game Alani heal can almost heal 6 times what one Reyna over shield can heal. I know their are some garbage Alani players in this game but surely you do not believe Reyna can out heal her.

Whiskey functionally is bad for a good portion of the game. However, I don’t think there is a single person come level five capable of putting 4,200 damage into a person for literally free. Everyone considers him under powered because functionally his two base skills suck. Stick nades slow and hard to land, doesn’t get pushing power till it has 2 perks. Shrapnel cannon is just functionally bad to long of a start up time, really bad aim assist, its two charge perks has to be reloaded in the clunkiest way. You can almost make up any kill deficit with that ultimate, you can solo sentries like they’re nothing. Talk about power.

SaA has always been strong , although his a bit weaker after the nerfs.

Really there is only one really under powered character and that’s Attikus. Even then I’ve seen him be effective.

A good Reyna vs a bad Alani: Good Reyna can win in heals. Heck a good Reyna can out heal a moderate Alani, no a good Reyna cannot out heal a good Alani, my point is that Reyna has good heal potential AND is an amazing support without heals. I wouldn’t mind seeing a buff but there is no real need for it.

Whiskey Foxtrot has the biggest need for a buff amongst these three, his damage outpost (especially level 5+) is already amazing however. The buffs he needs are specifically to his techniques.

Shayne + Aurox is evvvvviiiiilllll