This is a x-post from reddit so I decide to put it here as well, Original post can be found here: https://www.reddit.com/r/borderlands3/comments/ddj8li/the_inherent_problem_of_the_end_game/
There is a problem in BL3 right now and it’s what you can call “End Game” Every patch it seems like Gearbox is treating the symptoms, not the root cause of the issue. What I mean by this? The nerfs to Chuba, Tink and Tree-Dude farming is not solving the issue. The players has to have something meaningful to do once they completed their tour of the main campaign.
Give players something meaningful to do.
Me and my buddies were hyped to go in to Mayhem 3 back in the day and be like “oh man, we need to do this fast and furious style to get the sweet sweet loot we so desperately want.” Which in the end turned out to be a waste of time. The loot in the end isn’t worth it, mostly blues and epics at max level and max difficulty. Only thing that changed is the money rewards you get in the end and lets face it, no one really needs those cash rewards. Plus along the way we got like 1 legendary each which eventually were sold to Marcus for another cash flow in to our pockets.
Only thing we found “worth it for the cause” is to do Slaughter Shaft But I will come back that to later. If trials are supposed to be part of your endgame philosophy, make running them worth it and rewarding.
By completing difficult challenges, players should be rewarded accordingly.
What I mean by this, let me give you an example.
For example in Diablo 3, You have these things called “Greater Rifts” and those are basically same as Trials in BL3, You have a limit of 15 minutes to beat the Greater Rift and in the end you are rewarded with legendaries, Harder Greater Rift, more legendaries in the end. And harder it gets more monsters and tougher monster spawn. The monsters also have increased damage as well as health and defenses and greater variables as well. (Such as reflect damage and so on.)
Or in Path of Exile, there is this mechanic called “Delving” the deeper you delve in to those mines, More difficult it gets but the rewards are justified to explore deeper and deeper in to those mines.
Right now I don’t see a reason to run a trial in any way than just normal mode. As the rewards are practically the same.
Don’t even get me started on the big transparency of rewards between all of the arena fights. Where Slaughter Shaft can net you around 10-20 legendaries per 5 rounds where the beast one give you 1-5.
As of now whilst posting this we currently are having the first week of the Halloween event going on and there is little to no incentive to do things like Katakawa Jr. or Pain and Terror due (Specially Pain and Terror as they don’t seem to drop any legendaries at all)
Nerffing Loot Tink/Chuba/Tree-buddy/ Is just treating the symptoms, not the main culprit.
Players tend to gravitate towards what is the most rewarding way to farm for themselves and that sadly still is Big Gravewarden himself. As I stated before, the rewards on current endgame isn’t substantial enough give players the challenge and the rewards they so desire. So people like me gravitate to do the same 15 second game loop just to get that gear you so desperately desire. Getting 1 legendary from 204 Legendaries in the game and trying to get one with proper rolls and or anointed is a nightmare.
I will say. Farming Gravewarden is no fun and it’s giving me slight burnout because of it. As it’s the only farm now that’s really worth doing if you even want to do well in Mayhem 3.
COV? More like Elite Strike Force!
Let’s talk about the issue that is COV in Mayhem 3. The rag tag group of bandits that are the major faction we fight in BL3. And those are more well trained than your Maliwan forces.
My brothers and sisters who farm Mayhem 3 know that whenever you are fighting COV there are always two things that are always true, Anointed and Bad-asses with Rocket Launchers.
BA’s With Rocket Launchers Are way over-tuned for the entire mode. These bad boys and girls do need to get nerffed sooner or later. I’m not meaning in damage or health but…
A.) How fast they fire.
B.) Pinpoint accuracy
They literally are more of an threat than Maliwan snipers who generously tell that you are about to get shot at with that laser sight of theirs, but these people they just bust trough the door and before you know it that one guy has already put 3 rockets down the range coming your way and doesn’t matter how fast you go with Amara or Zane, they always will connect with you, no matter where you go. Just please for the love of god reduce their accuracy and/or firing speed.
Anointed Are a neat gimmick for the first few times you fight them but they scale off the hinges in Mayhem 3. CC immunity is fine and all but why do you have to make them immune to Cryo damage, specially when one of your vault hunters is desperately relying on cryo damage to do it’s thing. (Poor Zane, I feel you man) Oddly enough I think the rewards are good for what you get from killing an anointed but the core issue relies on the fact that the Anointed themselves feel such a padding out to artificially increase the difficulty level of the COV which already are the hardest to fight to begin with. Reduce the health of anointed or make them resistant to cryo, not immune is a good way to start making them good to fight against.
Look in to balancing the End Game Arenas
Why is it that Slaughter Shaft is pretty much the only one worth for farming legendaries? Why does it give you 10x more legendaries then any of the other arenas. How many times I’ve gotten team mates who quit in matchmaking if it’s not Slaughter Shaft?
Maybe look in to it. Make them worth farming. I’d like to play something else than Rocket Hell for once.
Let’s talk about Mayhem 3 for a moment.
First of all. I’m all for it. I want more difficulty levels in the game as most of the game was a cake walk to begin with. But in whose bright mind was it to make Mayhem 3? Mayhem 3 is not fun or challenging in a fair way. Most of the games if you queu up with matchmaking to a Slaughter Shaft one, if there is any kind of -damage to guns or elemental damage you can be sure that most hosts quit jut to re roll the dice again and as a player who wanted to join the game one it feels infuriating just to be kicked back to main menu because of it.
Randomness is fun, but randomness in a challenge is not fun. The increased health for enemies and so on is good but adding minus modifiers in to the game that really null and voids people’s builds will just make them stop trying in the end.
That’s why Grawevarden is such a good boss to farm because doesn’t matter the modifiers he will still go down in 5-20 seconds, depending on your build and your vault hunter. Even people who play Zane can kill him before he has stopped tipping the platform you stand on.
I do whole heartedly recommend for Gearbox to look in to how they do increasing difficulty in games such as Path of Exile and Diablo, OFC they are different type of games but the things they do right in increasing the difficulty has been done well. Why try to re-ivent the wheel? If the shoe fits, wear it.
EDIT: To Clarify, when we are talking about difficulty people want reliability, not randomness.
Last but not least.
Let’s be real here chief, Give us an actual shooting range where we can see our damage numbers and how well our builds handle. Who care about some silly shooting minigame…
Instead of nerffing current loot farm locations, give players incentive to do harder content that rewards accordingly and not some crappy hand-me-downs.
Thank you for coming to my TED-talk.
PS. Give us a shooting range, will ya?
PPS.Really… give us a real shooting range, I’m sure Ellie has enough scrap and ducktape laying around…
EDIT 2: Fixed issue where I used term “Cistern of Slaughter” whilst talking about Slaughter Shaft… My bad.
EDIT 3: The Zane build that I was talking about. Credit goes to Svenskommandö for recording this vid: https://streamable.com/0ms6z
EDIT 4: Another video from Svenskommandö with Zane. This time with no bonus modifiers to the build from Mayhem 3: https://streamable.com/ibdy4
EDIT 5: I’m surprised about the fact that these problems do resonate with people, but it seems like that some people are missing the point. Comments like “You play too much” or “this game is just to be played over and then waited for the dlc” Are quite ignorant and lacking the foresight what makes games relevant. For some of us paying 60 dollars/euros/regional equivalent is a big sum and can’t afford just to jump ships when ever a new shining gem comes along. And 2nd of all, with the current day and age you need to keep your consumer engaged and playing your game till you can get more sales via DLC and what not. If the players play for few days complete the story and then move on, from those customers only a handful will come back once you release a new set of content, but if you keep people engaged in your game till the DLC comes along, you are prone to get more sales out of them. I do value your arguments on this matter, but as we as consumers are already drowning in amount of games being released it is important for the developers to keep us interested in their product as long as they can. Plus let’s face it. It’s been so long since last mainline Borderlands release and we do want to enjoy it more than just the lenght that it takes us to complete the main storyline.