Sweeping MP Balance Changes Discussion Thread

So there’s a lot of disagreement as to how the combined multiplayer races should be balanced stat wise. Currently they are very much HW2 values, and there is a fair amount of forumers who dislike this. Any sweeping balance changes like a 50% HP buff to all ships should be discussed here.

Personally the current hp direction feels like everything’s made of plastic. I don’t want plastic ships, I want things that are made of whatever futuristic alloy they’d be using and that actually take a while to do. The whole balance needs a change of direction so as to not have everything be broken.

Minelayers are broken. I think the current imba pulsar gunships is partially caused by a lack of potential counters such as minelayers as well as pulsars having too high accuracy against fighters, reduce chance to hit them from 1/3 to 1/4 and increase standard gunship range a bit to compensate? Also there has to be an early way for HW1 races to deal with pulsars easily, perhaps a kamikaze damage buff to interceptors so that you can just suicide your ships to kill them?

You can try to rush grav well. That’s been my only strat; set up grav wells and ignore fighters completely. :smile: Hope people have been having better luck… I don’t want to bandwagon, but I do think pulsars are over powered, even from HW2 originally.

How does using assault frigates work against them? Is a frigate strat viable at all?

Vaygr assualt frigates weren’t useful tactically in HW2 before, so I doubt they’re useful now.

HW1 assualt frigates … well I never built them in HW1 either so I don’t know. Using them in the campaign many years ago, however, I remember them not being particularly useful. This may have changed; I’ll try it next time. I do think HW1 ships got drastically turned upside down, but their rock-paper-scissor descriptions are fairly accurate. Pulsars still eat frigates for lunch, though, and I imagine HW1 frigates are no different.

HW1 assaults were your bread and butter units that were decent against fighters and frigates and awesome against corvettes.

The thing that seems to be going on here is people not being experienced with HW1 races (or hw2 races) and not being aware of which units are rock, paper, and scissors and then trying to use paper against scissors. Sorry folks, that’s not how it works.

I have to confess I didn’t play very many high level matches in HW1, but I don’t ever recall assault frigates being used unless very early, and in very few numbers. Just me?

Vaygr Assualt frigates where never used because missile kill corvettes and frigates that people made to kill EMP and fighter swarm.

Even on Vaygr VS Vaygr, you built coverttes to handle fighter swarms.
Lazer corvettes and Assault frigates is a good combo,

Comparing HW 1 ships to HW 2 is like saying Zergs are this to siege tanks, lol

GG,

I think Aged has it right, it is too early to talk balance when it is so hard to get games put together, once the lobby issues are resolved and games actually start we can really get down to balance concerns, now it is just best guesses with too few games played to give an accurate assessment.

So far I am finding the game fairly balanced…but in an overall way, not a unit vs unit way.

For example, HW2 fighter squadrons are still superior to HW fighter squadrons…but HW one factions can then simply incapacitate enemy fighters with their gravity well generators…

Another example, HW2 modules on capital ships are very helpful…but HW1 capital ships (even Destroyers) don’t need modules to hyperspace jump and are cheaper.

I mean, there are going to be a lot of ‘This unit is weak vs that unit’, but when you look at the tools/potential of each faction = they are fairly balanced (IMO).

I agree, that’s the primary problem with MP/skirmish at the moment.

Ship speed is the same as original, but everything dies too fast. So maneuvering ships is nearly impossible, because they die before you can even get Frigates and Capital Ships to fully turn.

Oh boy, i got HARDCORE into hw1 mp, and i got to say, if youd didn’t build assault frigates, you are doing it VERY VERY WRONG!

Hello? Destroy Mothership as win condition? Thank Beghins for that crap… Totally ruins the dynamics of Vaygr and Hiigaran, but has a heavy effect on the HW 1 races also.

Let’s start by fixing formations. Currently all HW1 strike craft are acting like rookies. You would see similar w/l ratios in HW1 if you took a player who just selected all his strike craft and attacked vs a player who organized his fighters in 3-5 unit mini claws and vets in a wall supported. Currently strike craft are only forming up if they are stopped. After that is fixed and we see HW1 strike craft performing to their potential, then we can talk HP/Dmg/accuracy tweaks.

If this mechanic cannot be brought back to the way it worked in HW1, then I agree that strike craft for the HW1 races need to follow the same wing design as HW2. I will be sad though, the entire reason to play HW1 races is for its manual formation control. We hated HW2 for taking that away, but many learned to live with it. I’ll be even more disappointed if it is not present here.

Has anyone experienced the effect of say 10 HW1 interceptors in claw formation (properly set up) vs 2 Hiig interceptor squads? I’m curious to see the benefits of formations with real numbers.

Dude, formations aren’t even working in combat…

Like Kadeshi said above me, the formation mechanic is not working. Not ‘imbalanced’ not ‘doesn’t work as good as it did in HW1’ it’s not working as in its broke and doesn’t work. The craft will follow the original command to make a formation, but as soon as you issue an attack order, they break formation and just start swarming around on their OFP.

We can’t effectively compare 3 scouts vs 1 wing of recons or 5 inties vs a wing of inties because formations are not working the way they did in HW1. Or we CAN compare them and it’s working the same way HW1 did if you put 5 scouts in claw formation up against 5 non formation scouts. The non forms lose every time.

Personally i believe that the progression
FRIGATE -> DESTROYER -> HEAVY CRUISER
is way OTT at the moment.
A HC/BC will absolutely melt anything thats in his way, and frigates are the first to die in any fight, they dont even stand a fighting chance against a destroyer.
Please try to balance this out. They don’t need to be stronger on the offensive side, just add some HP to their pool. It should take about 3 destroyers to take down a HC/BC, and about 4 frigates to take down a destroyer. This would be a much more balanced and interesting approach that would also lead to more diverse fleets.
Anyone agreeing with me?

Nope…I still think that the Frigates, Destroyers and Heavy Cruiser are fine as is. The game has so many more counters to the Cruisers = you shouldn’t be using Frigates to take down a Cruiser. Strike craft and corvettes will crush a BC with a weak AA support.