Take a minute to think before you make statements about the development team

I understand the point you are trying to make in your post, but at the same time I cannot help but wonder what happened with the story writers and the balancing team. There are some… issues there.

More than likely it is Take Two Interactive’s fault more than Gearbox’s. If they gave Gearbox more time, there may have been less problems.


Ironically, I’ve seen the very people agreeing with you here also being critical of the devs. Ahhh the Internet. Don’t change for nothing.

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For the record, I agree.

But are there story issues as far as the story team are concerned? Or is it causing enough of a lore talking point?

Balancing again is subject to your userbase.

You had a beta of maybe 5k people - if that - and you analyse how they play and adjust live release for that.

Then you get 5 million players…thats quite a substantial increase all playing iteravely different ways, but then the articles comes out and you see a slide towards a makeup/build not originally envisioned…but it starts to go against your intended vision.
So they adjust.

Now I’m not going to argue the merits of for/against - after all its not my game.

When I say balancing, I am mostly mean the fact that despite being warned ahead of time about pet and Iron Bear scaling, they ended up releasing the game in such a state that 3 vault hunters have problems with ability focused builds in the higher difficulties as a result.

I am wondering why they thought it was ok to have abilities/pets put out such underwhelming damage. What was the intent behind that decision?

I worked as best I can to get around that, but it seems most people on these forums avoid Iron Bear as much as possible because the damage is inferior to what they can do without him.

Edit: However, they say they are working on these issues, which makes me happy.

Got mine on console. It is well worth the money. I have out in hundreds of hours across 4 characters. I spent 250. Still don’t feel shafted like a lot of you here.

Yes, QA was a it rushed. What game in today’s world releases perfect. To quote a good friend of mine. “If you don’t want issues, wait 6 months. Get a cheaper game. Otherwise, buy full price, support the studio, and deal with it.” Again, and I have mentioned this SEVERAL times, video game industry going on 5ish years.

As for the event. I am of the minority who back it, as is, 100%. I love it. I love all of it. They did a neat thing, absolutely free to us, and instead of “Oh neato” they are getting “Turn off button please!” Because people cant either adapt, or have some odd tolerance issue skills. (See my comments in every Bloody Harvest thread.)

Bottom line here though. This Thread IS NOT about not complaining. This thread IS ABOUT showing respect to a team of hard working individuals who are certainly busting every amount of butt they can souly for our enjoyment.

Constructive, kind, criticism. Encouragement to fix things, but also let them know your not bailing because of minor issues after 2 months. Quality takes time. End of story.


I honestly do not think most people on these forums intend to bail on the game. I have things that annoy me, but I intend to stick around.

I want to say that is true for most people on here.

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FYI Some good points about story writing in 2019 here:

Every single person that’s been playing this game since launch has gotten their money’s worth by a HUGE multiplier. I don’t believe for a second there are any that purchased BL3 and are completely abandoning the game. Was it perfect at launch? That greatly depends on whom you ask. For me, a very casual player, whatever issues may have surfaced I see a company actively looking to improve upon what is, in my opinion, a very fun game to play. Can’t speak for anyone else, but being in a stressful enough career I play BL for fun. If this “GAME” is not fun for you… Don’t play? Am I missing something?


Well said. These people probably worked overtime, nights and weekends under ridiculous pressure to get this AMAZING (I love this game so thank you GB) game done in time for all of us. Not to mention the crazy fast responses with patches and hotfixes and extra FREE content they’ve delivered! These people have families and responsibilities outside of work and even though they probably enjoy their jobs immensely – no one enjoys being attacked and negatively criticized for simple mistakes, bugs, and glitches and not appreciated for their hard work! I’m glad their are others out there that are willing to show gratitude and not throw a temper tantrum like a child would because they didn’t get their way! Sorry if it sounds like I just reworded what you said OP, I strongly agree with your post!

I dont work in the video game industry so some of what I said is obviously speculation, but where I do work in grease and oil and hot conditions getting machines up and running, I know what it’s like to make mistakes trying to get things done fast for demanding and sometimes unappreciative customers!


Well evaluating return value is an individual thing. You are not going to decide if people “get their moneys worth” simply because perception and individual entertainment are key factors in that decision and people will most likely put different weight on different things.

I started out on PC and I suffered from micro-stutters and real bad performance even at the lowest settings wich made the game look like a potato. This was double frustrating because my wife with almost the same PC set-up played it at ultra with 80 FPS and we couldnt figure out why. So my “fun” was already greatly diminished simply because I was unable to snipe, playing a melee chaarcter was impossible and my ingame performance suffered a great deal resulting in yet more frustration.

Would I have started on a console this would ve been even MORE infuriating but you can pile more on top with BL3. Your console crashing out of the blue? Losing your save files for no reason? Take your pick.

I cannot even begin to understant the patience and resilience many people had by going though that simply because I didnt experience it. Telling them that they “got their moneys worth” would simply not be my place and I wouldnt have the right to make that statement.

So…you simply cannot make that statement but maybe you mean something else?

Obviously Borderlands 3 as a computer game has a certain product value. Gearbox put it at 60 bucks which is pretty standard at this time and age. I agreed to pay down that amount of money for the right to play the game. In that regard I certainly got “some” value for my money because neither was the game reliable enough to play consistently nor did it contain all the things Gearbox hinted at.

“Our focus when designing BL3 was replayability and endgame”…really? Funny cuz I cant see it to be honest. Mayhem is not “endgame” but just a difficulty scaler and me and many others run with M3 by now. It doesnt even register as a concious choice anymore. So whats endgame?

Trial runs
Slaughter runs

Thats it? Picture me NOT impressed.

Honestly, the way BL3 was handled at release and regarding the quality of its content (some good, some bad, some lacking) I would personally rate it a 35-40 buck game, not 60. So how can you tell me “you got your moneys worth”?

Expectations also play a huge factor in return value. You can receive a “good” game but because the hype was insane beforehand and you were simply expecting something god-like…you will perceive it as “bad”.

Peoples posts are not a “final verdict” but often enough are merely a snapshot of the current state of the game. Whoever says he doesnt like thing X can at any time change his opinion. Conditions change because (thankfully) gearbox continues to work on issues but forgetting that these issues are still very much a problem and simply shouldnt ve been in the release version in the first place would be irresponsible.

Its great that you personally have not encountered any gamebreaking bugs or glitches that could affect your enjoyment. That doesnt mean that your situation is the same as for everybody else.

Borderlands 3 has to endure comparisons to Borderlands 2. Its really not coming out on top by a HUGE margin in that comparison and right now my take on it…only the quality of life improvements BL3 has over 2 are saving it to be perceived as equal or at least let me continue to play it.

Tho I m not gonna lie…me and my wife are both already at the point where we log in and try to figure out what to do…and we hardly come up with anything that would be “fun”


Well that doesn’t sound like fun. I am sorry both you and your wife did not have a good experience thus far. My comment on “ monies worth” was really referring to time value of money. Simply, if I pay $100.00 for a game and for example put 20 hrs in at $5.00 per hr, 50 hrs at $2.00 Per hr etc …I could say, at least for me, it would be very difficult to replicate this from a value proposition standpoint elsewhere. Cost my wife and I $50.00 at minimum for a night at the movies that’s an hour and 1/2 long. Even if the movie wasn’t a blockbuster… we had a nice night out :wink:. I hope things improve on your end. Cheers.

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Not so sure if I’m ready to jump on the love wagon here, the game was clearly rushed and obviously none of the Devs spent enough time with Borderlands 2.


Yes I have seen that argument a lot of times and dont fail to understand that its something completely different. Expectations are different and of course the service provided has a different value then what a game provides.

I also have been to the movies and LEFT before credits rolled because it was so cringe and bad that it felt like a waste of time. Also a waste of money in that regard even tho others had a great night. And movies today hardly differentiate prices based on quality. Movie tickets pretty much all cost the same but the return value you get from one is almost guaranteed to be different depending on your taste and “why” you selected that specific movie right?

“Cheap” cars also cost around 10.000 dollars, they drive and do what cars are supposed to do. With 60 bucks I m sure Borderlands 3 is a great deal yes? :slight_smile: I guess you see my point.

People try to generalize “entertainment” but again, going to a rollercoaster park will have a very different pricing as well as return value then a computer game. Or going dining (which I had some people tell me can cost upwards of 2000 bucks for a party of 4 and is considered “worth it”)

Things in regards to Borderlands 3 continue to improve…mainly because Gearbox seems to understand that work requires to be done and they acknoweldge and commit to it. No small thanks to people like me who make the effort to point out that things need fixing and in this regard people who spend their time to “question my motives” are really nothing else then saboteurs. Gearbox can already at any time ignore my feedback and stop listening. Doesnt need a fanboy or white knight to shut me up hehe.

Out of interest. Where did you get the idea that a computer game has “met” its return value at a certain time spent? You see, I come from a generation when games cost 30 dollars and were timeless classics you could easily dump hundreds or even thousands of hours into. When I purchase a video game I expect a product that keeps my interest for months and can be played for years to come. Not all games fulfill that status quo but its what I “expect” from the games I chose. It started more then 10 years ago when Call of Duty released with a 4 hour single player campaign and only offered MP matches for a price tag of 50 bucks.

Maybe thats the kind of “grooming” companies did slowly over the years, to reduce expectations and make less quality the perceived norm.

Going off-topic here, forgive me :slight_smile:

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I agree that BL3 still rough around the edges and has room for improvement. And I can understand why people are dissatisfied with the game that they’ve been anticipating for so long because it didn’t quite meet their expectations. I’ve gotten annoyed at the fair share of bugs that I’ve encountered and there are things that I think GBX most certainly could’ve been done better too, but overall, I’m still having fun for the most part.

This is where I think the problem lies. If people want this game to be the best, then yelling at the devs to fix things is not the way to go about it because that helps no one. I’m not saying that problems with the game shouldn’t be made noticed but I agree with the OP in the sense that I think the way in which the “feedback” for this game is delivered by some people is appalling. People seem to forget they can voice their opinions in a civil manner, even if they despise the game.

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The bolded thing there is exactly what the OP is recommending you don’t do. You have no idea how much BL2 they played. You have no idea how many of them even worked on BL2.

You’re just assuming they don’t because you personally can’t see enough links between the two games. You have to understand that this might be on you, and not Gearbox.

My apology if I look at things to mathematically. I turn 50 next year and my discretionary time to actually sit and play a video game is quite limited. I see your points and certainly respect your view. I can say with certainty that had I have had severe issues from the very beginning I would have shelved the game and moved on until such time the needed fixes were implemented. Best example I could give regarding time value and relation to fun factor is a friend I have that plays PC at my local gym. He had issues as well but actually took his week vacation to play the game. Bugs and all he played about 12 hrs a day for a week straight. I asked him if he felt he got his monies worth and he most certainly did. That said, he’s bored now and shelved the game until the new DLC comes out. He will continue going back to the game as new content rolls out( continued playability ). In hindsight, my original comment may have been to broad in nature so I will simply provide my experience and that is at $100.00 ( whatever that includes in my original purchase), with the hours I have played and fun associated with those hours, I derived more than adequate value for the cost. I am no computer programmer or software savant so my comments come strictly from the fact that if I can farm Crushjaw for 3 hrs to try and get an anointed , fire Bone Shredder and have a smile on my face the whole time… hats off to you Gearbox.


Funny thing that… Because as long as I keep seeing things like:

I don’t know what else you expect me to say. We have loads of folks here preaching for us to respect the developers but no one cares enough to respect our struggles or opinions. Y’all didn’t have the problems so it must not exist is the way you come across, perhaps redirecting some of that empathy you have for them towards your peers would be worth your time.

Here you completely missed my point, it wasn’t about the event at all. It was about communication, and how the team can’t come out and say that many of the issues people have will be addressed. I liked the event, it was a fun change of pace. I still want to respect my fellow consumers and as so many of them have requested an opt out feature - why is it not a solid plan going forward? By not committing to putting this feature into future events it is the developers who are flipping a giant bird towards their paying customers!

The biggest problem I have with the game is the UI lag. If you look at the feedback the complaints drown out the comments from the folks who enjoy it - even if you narrow it down to folks who love the game it’s still a complaint shared by the majority. You speak of a team “busting every amount of butt” when that’s not anywhere near clearly what’s happening. I could quote portions from every hotfix release regarding performance and optimization yet have not a single thing regarding their attempt to fix this core problem. ARE they working on it?

Patience is something I can have, I’ve been trying to have… What I’m struggling with is understanding if anything will actually get better or not. And while I eagerly await any shred of news regarding the matter, all I continue to see is a team living the mantra that they know what we want better than the customers do.

I’m fine with them having a vision of the direction the game should be headed, I’m not fine with them confining my methods of entertainment any more than I’m willing to accept other forum users telling me what value I’ve already obtained from my purchase.

And for the record I’m not asking for perfect, I’m asking for playable. Again, if it works for you congrats… The game simply was not ready by the release date.


Didn’t took time to read the thread but yeah…
What @Budgeko :point_up_2: said.

I second that statement! :open_mouth: :smiley:

I’d say there’s probably a link between the two quotes.
Not that all “younglins” are whiny brats but with time, some of us, get a new perspective.
Sure there’s bugs here and there. The lag and other issues in menu (PS4) is annoying.
Could it had been more “trhoughfully” tested? Yes, of course.

Haters gonna hate and sadly it’s a popular thing to do right now. It’s all over the net and a good argument against net neutrality.
I try not to pay attention to hate/troll post. Game is good. It will go on. Dust will settle.
Time is on our side.

Meh. Trying to discredit your peers like this constantly is the real hating imo. Personally I feel my complaints (about the UI which I find unacceptable) are completely valid. As well as I respect the complaints and praises of the rest of the people who spent their hard earned money on this game, money which has vastly different values to each and every person. I don’t find it disrespectful to speak frankly how I did about the job that was done and how I feel it should and could have been done better.

If someone gets the impression that the dev’s did a lazy job- that’s just how the feel about it, it doesn’t mean they are hating, or being disrespectful. To swing a wide swath and call people complainers and haters, that my friend is disrespectful.


I also have to ask the question. How can this game be “ unplayable” for some when so many seem to be just fine? Again, I’m a complete neophyte when it comes to the inner workings of hardware and software but are these issues many are having user specific? As in terrible internet speed or hardware issues? On my PS4 I have had and continue to have lag issues related to menu rotation etc… but with all
those I know in my circle which includes XBOX, PS4 and PC… not one has ever said the game was to a point where it was not playable. Just curious.