Tediore Moze viable?

So, hearing Moze with Tediore’s can be a thing, I’ve been saving off any decent Tediores (homing, Mirv) off to Moze. But, each time I’ve tried I get rather underwhelmed with what I can do. I seem to do so much better with my regular stock of weapons, shields, & grenades (Cutsman, Brainstormer, Stop Gap, etc.) Trying to play a Tediore Moze I seem to need a Face Puncher with a Cutspurse something-or-other for shotgun ammo regen or an Extreme Hangin’ Chadd for pistol ammo regen. I like Tediore pistols such as Baby Makers & the Chadd’s kinda fun but chucking pistols is sort of meh. The Everblast Tediore shotguns seem weird, too – sometimes I can shoot once and chuck, other times it won’t chuck until I’ve shot off two or more shots?

Is the Tediore build mainly for bosses? Can’t it be used for mobbing? Hate to leave an entire manufacturer in the dust but if other builds are just more effective then I’ll just have to forget it, I guess? BTW - I’ve spent more time with Amara & Fl4k so not as much experience with Moze. In an earlier Moze build I focused on buffing shields – think I liked that better (just hate to give up on Tediores).

Here’s the build I came up with, based on some YouTubers recommendations (dang, forgot who) –


I don’t run Tediore myself so take the following with a grain of salt.

You’re probably noticing Cloud of Leads interference here. I’d recommend dropping it, the ammo saving is doing nothing for your Tediores.

With regards to your skill trees, it looks to me like you’ve overdone on the mag size boosts and forgotten everything else. Tediore reloads are more or less calculated as such:

Chuck Damage = [Card dmg] x [SoR Gun Damage] x [Grenade damage] x [splash + aoe] x [bullets in mag]

The linked build is only boosting damage through [bullets in mag] and Moze’s pull the holy pin. If you add a few normal gun damage boosts from Shield of Retribution and maybe a Splash or AoE damage perk on your artifact then you’ll have multiplicative boosts to your damage, which should help alot.

You can see another discussion on Tediore damage here.


Absolutely it can - I do it with FL4K as I’m typing this. Things I’ve learned using Tediore in BL3:

  • It feels like they shoot better than in BL2, I think; try shooting them like a normal weapon instead of just throwing away the ammo to see if this playstyle is for you (much easier on the ammo consumption). Many of Moze’s ammo regen skills are based on refilling the magazine directly, not backfilling the ammo pool, so she has a rough time working with reload tosses in this manner.

  • The homing MIRV weapons are brutal, but don’t hesitate to pass up a “normal” MIRV reload: if you nail the throw at something’s feet well (think Pimpernel shot), they’ll eat all the damage, which seems higher than the homing variant (the risk is that you don’t nail the toss: with the homing ones, you just throw the reload anywhere). Plus this works in confined areas if needed (homing MIRVs will die in the ceiling if it’s too low).

  • Some of the other reload variants are quite fun, if not as easy as ‘throw the weapon anywhere’ for the homing MIRV type. The ones you can shoot to amp damage before detonation are a hoot.

  • The Gunerang seems like it’s easier to get dialed in on an enemy on the return flight. I’ve seen the Bangarang hit hard AF, but haven’t dialed in how to reliably get it to do this. Like BL2, both hit surprisingly hard with normal shots.

  • Watch the Mayhem Mode rolls - some are specifically pro- or anti-Tediore. Specifically, “± Pistol, SMG, and Shotgun Damage” modifiers.

  • Tediore only makes three weapon types, so your ammo pools are already limited. Even if you’re not reload tossing, keep in mind that you’ll be nursing off the vending machines and local ammo piles often. I’ve been making exceptions for limited off-manufacturer inclusions to help offset this myself. Tediore’s pistols, SMGs, and shotguns don’t lend themselves to long-range combat, so including a single sniper rifle in your arsenal can help a ton. (Drop that Zealot from across the map sniping you so you can engage the local enemies with your Tediore arsenal without that cover fire, for example).

  • Moze’s Some For the Road skill is recommended: when you get out of Iron Bear, reload toss as fast as you can for five seconds without touching your ammo pool. This can be a lot of ammo-free damage, depending on what you’re throwing.

  • I’d look into research about Click, Click… as it might benefit the damage of the reload toss if the weapon was low when you threw it? Maybe it’s a wash because there’s less ammo left in the weapon when tossed?


When I run Tediore, I use something like this with a cutpurse deathless relic:

There are 4 points unspent; sometimes I put them in Stoke the Embers, other times I go for Phalanx Doctrine. Against robots, obviously, the bonus fire damage is less useful. Vladof Ingenuity is a good choice too.

I prefer Stainless Steel Bear over Torgue Cross Promotion because I try to keep auto bear up (with vanquisher rocket pods and no augments) and the extra health helps. Also, Torgue Cross Promotion makes it more likely you down yourself if you aren’t careful. That said, when there are lots of enemies, if you use homing/MIRV shotguns the extra radius can be helpful, since you don’t have a lot of control over which enemies they decide to seek out.

Finally, I feel like its important to either have anointments or element match, and ideally both. It’s possible to keep the 120% bonus splash damage up pretty consistently, as long as you pop out of Iron Bear as soon as you cast it. Also, I’m looking into finding builds that actually have health gate, as 1 hp is a bit annoying to run in the takedown.

I would image that elements damage increases (let’s say from an elemental projector or an ase anointment) would increase chuck damage as well right?

Wouldn’t some for the road prevent you from throwing because of the infinite ammo?

It does yes.

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I run a god-rolled Tediore Moze on console. I switch up and allow my other characters the Tediore build too. IMO, Zane and Moze run it the best, although Amara is insane too.

I can say, without a doubt, a Tediore build is the single strongest build in the game. Both mobbing and bossing. Damage and survivability. Chucking is only somewhat difficult for graveward due to distance. Niche builds that one-shot bosses have mobbing limitations. A Tediore build makes everything trivial, fast kills, never buy ammo, aiming isn’t even needed (but is better), and makes you invincible.

You need a Everblast shotgun with 4-5 child projectiles that home into enemies. Every other Tediore is pretty underwhelming compared to these. Cutpurse is 100% needed for ammo. Zane is the only one that can reliably restore any type of ammo, so other weapon types can be used (bar the chad). Transformer with a shock everblast will full heal you with every chuck that hits you. Initial blast does 200-400k, with each child projectile homing into enemies for 150-200k. Large enemies, like Wotan, can get hit with the initial, and every one of the projectiles at once from under him, doing million+ damage per chuck. Moze’s only problem is that she can’t throw very quick. Amara and Zane can chuck all your ammo within a minute. Moze does the most damage out of all of them, but at a slower pace. Zane has the most survivability of the three (IMO), and Amara can consistently proc ASE annointments.

Can it get better? Absolutely. If on ASE shock annointments didn’t bypass Transformers resistance, Tediore builds could get 100% more damage.

I have a god-rolled chain Zane, and god-rolled recursion Amara too, and a Tediore build can keep up with them and doesn’t have the single target limitation, ammo, or have to aim.

So to answer your question, yes, with perfect gear it’s probably the best build in the game for all characters.

For Moze, skills that regain ammo can lead to this. If you shoot, then the regain gives the ammo back before you reload can cause this sometimes.

Is it the same formula for Tediores that become turrets when thrown?

I’ve only looked at the standard single throw. So I don’t know how the turret formula or the mirv formula’s.

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The only other way to get more reload speed for moze outside of the guardian rank increase is the “+25% Tediore Weapon Reload Speed” passive that can spawn on class mods. not sure what would be better, a damage passive or the extra dps you can get with this reload speed passive, worth looking into

Also I do wish their was a way to run on ase elemental anoints with out loosing the ability to regen a transformer shield with your throws. the buff lasts for 10 second even if you swap weapons correct? if not i would say maybe swap to a shock tediore pistol or a second shock shotgun for really fast healing.

Nope. The annointment is specific to the weapon, so swapping does not work. Plus, they’re on shields/grenades which is tedious to switch off, and reactivate Iron Bear, which is slow. Also, the annointments will kill you. Alot of the survivability of a Tediore build is regaining shield from the splash of a shock Tediore with the transformer (which absorbs shock damage and gives shield back). However, the on ASE +50% Shock damage annointment does not get absorbed by the transformer for whatever reason. So any splash that hits you, or throwing at your feet to regain shield will end up downing your character with this active. I mean, it’s possible but requires careful maintenance & you can’t heal yourself in those ten seconds with a deathless/bloodletter build.

Does the extra element also get applied to grenades? i would imagine the answer is yes if the extra damage is being applied to tediore reloads but if not, maybe you could heal yourself with a shock mirv cluster f*ck or any other self damaging grenade.

maybe instead of bloodletter you could do a low health gate build with two points in TRL?
can tediore reloads proc vampyr?

It does not apply to grenades. Tediore reloads count as grenades and weapon damage at the same time, so annointments that affect gun damage affect them. However, thrown grenades only count as grenades, so annointments do not affect them. Also, yes, Vampyr affects the reloads, so you can heal yourself that way, but damage is caculated before healing, so you’ll still die. Regardless, the hundreds of thousands of damage the splash can deal to you will kill you. Also, self damage ignores health gate, for example, throwing a Tediore at your legs that isn’t shock with a Transformer on will automatically down you.

Not using a bloodletter isn’t impossible but is less optimal. None of her other coms affect the reloads. The bloodletter allows her to heal her shield through Vampyr, which is her only heal. Coupled with a Deathless, allows her to to have the full benefit of desperate measures, which is a 83%+ damage increase with the right skills on the bloodletter boosting it on at all times. If you were to try to make a healthgate tediore moze, you’d lose the benefit of desperate measures to a large extent, have no com abilities that affect the reloads, and lose a significant amount of shield by not running deathless or bloodletter.

I mean, it’s possible. People use the lvl 1 stop gap and cutpurse loaded dice with health regen to healthgate and become invincible but that requires a bloodletter. Healthgating reduces the benefit of desperate measures, thus reducing the benefit of the +50/100% ASE elemental annointments. This sacrifices the utility provided by the bloodletter and deathless as well. So it’s not really viable.

I get what you are saying it would offer better survivability but at the expense of quite a lot of damage.

I think im gonna try the max damage ase elemental anoint version of the tediore chuck build and try and find a good shock grenade for healing. i know that it would shaft survivability hard but i wana see what max damage output looks like. ill also try and find a shock grenade that can quickly recharge shields w/ a bloodletter transformer set up.

I’d love to see what we could come up with for Tediore builds now. The 100% increase to Tediore SMGs last month would probably be quite helpful as well as the boost to Torgue Cross Promotion :thinking:

I played around with this after the patch. Keenfire SMGs are competitive with Everblasts in terms of damage output now, though the overall damage lags behind other builds. I’m still tinkering with it.

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What skills did you go with? Thinking about the damage formula above, I wonder if this would be good with a Bloodletter and Cutpurse Launch Pad (going for bonuses in weapon damage, splash, AOE, grenade and mag size).

I’d have to look into the relative damage value of going deathless vs. 5/5 Iron Bank.

Another thing to consider is that MS micronades can still double-dip v2 damage, so it may be worth going MS instead – at least for mobbing. The Sapper COM might also be useful in this instance give its potential skill rolls.

I was going to mess around with build stuff this evening; I will put it on my to-do list.

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Did some testing:

– As I suspected, the 300v2/Mind Sweeper combo is very strong for mobbing.

– For MIRV SMGs, each child munition does half the damage of the weapon itself.

– All I had equipped in terms of gear was a purple Snowdrift artifact with mag size and area of effect damage rolls, as this is almost guaranteed to be on any chuck build. All damage stats are using a rad Keenfire with all possible parts and x5 MIRVs.

– 5/5 Matched Set with 4 Tediore guns increased my SMG’s mag from 44 to 56; this led to a difference of 205k(parent)/102k(MIRV) to 262k/131k. 5/5 Matched Set and 5/5 Iron Bank increased the clip size to 66 and the damage to 310k/155k. On net, a roughly 50% increase in damage.

All that being said, I think something like this might perform even better:


AI and DM will give you 65% bonus damage, 5/5 Matched Set will give a roughly 25%, and TCP will give 30% – which I would argue is a pretty decent spread. No need to spec into Vampyr if you use a BBB or a shield with a short recharge delay. To sustain the ammo, use a Cutpurse Deathless and a Fish Slap grenade.

You will definitely need IB/AB to help you with some boss fights because the Tediore MIRVs don’t always target what you want and they are too slow to catch up with flying enemies.


Did a quick Maliwan TTD test: