The Bentusi are a bit squishy

Like, seriously Gearbox, how does this make it through testing in any way?

2 Likes

All of the NPC races are far weaker than they used to be. Turanic IAFs used to have more firepower than the player’s ICFs, missile corvettes used to have more power and a near range-unlimited special attack, swarmers used to absolutely murder capital ships, and a small group of MBFs could rip the MS open in half a minute. I’m not entirely sure what’s going on with that… especially since HW2’s dynamic scaling has resulted in some of the Taiidan missions becoming exponentially more difficult. It seems an odd choice to make the P1 and P2 missions that much easier… and it is definitely odd to make the Bentusi so weak; their ship is (or was) the most powerful and fastest one in the game! IIRC they were made that way specifically to prevent the player from doing what you did there (not that it stopped people from doing it anyway). Bentusi ion tech is supposed to be leaps and bounds ahead of everybody else’s (well, except the Progenitors’ Phased Cannons, but nobody knew that at this point).

2 Likes

Yup i am stuck in that mission, because my cap ships cant make it to the battle in time before the Bentusi ship is destroyed. Strike craft do not distract the Taiidan ships attacking it. Even tried the mass salvaging trick. Nothing i can do works in time to save the ship.

Part of the problem is that there is a Taiidan Heavy Cruiser, and 5 destroyers (along with tons of frigates) in both super nova station, and this mission. I have only a few Destoyers, a Frigate line, and Strike craft. Dynamic difficulty thinks i am more than match for a Heavy Cruiser. So yea the Bentusi ship is pretty much TOAST before the cinematic ends. Plus you cant repair it.

In Classic HW these missions were fixed with a set amount of enemy’s, and Heavy Cruisers didnt show up until much later in the game. That Taiidan HC is a juggernaught, and i am certain once i can build a HC it will be just as tough.

An HC was present in HWC in both mission 10 and 11.

Salvage the HC in mission 10 and your life will be easier.

The big problem is that they kept the hull the same while giving Kushan/Taiidan much more firepower.
Also the continuous beams are gone and the Bentus has now a measly ~1000DPS vs 6000 in the original game… that was worth more than 6 heavy cruisers! And it targeted fighters/corvettes too!

But the hull problem is there for most of the pirate/others ships in campaign: they need a 2-3x buff!
Turanic carrier doesn’t attack at all with its ion cannons, same the Kadesh mothership, frigates are almost a joke because they are too weak and underpowered to yours… I miss multi-beam frigates being stronger than a destroyer!

1 Like

I forgot to mention it, but the same problem occurs in M3 with the cryo trays- they have too little health (about a frigate’s worth each), and if the game spawns too many assault frigates, they are entirely capable of blowing up all the trays before the player can react. M3 spawned ten assault frigs for me, and they had two trays destroyed, one almost destroyed, and a fourth badly damaged before my interceptors got close enough to engage them- the only thing that saved me was the fact that I had ten salvage corvettes to take half of the force out of the fight quickly, and I still very nearly lost the mission.

Another thing that doesn’t help is that HWR does not pause the game the way Classic did when it cuts to the sensor manager to identify new objectives- enemy ships are still attacking and dealing full damage to their targets while Karan and Intel talk in your ear; meanwhile your ability to manage your own ships is severely limited. At the very least, any defense objectives like the trays, the Bentusi, and the Kapella in M12, need to be protected from suffering any damage while the player’s ability to do anything about it is effectively nil.

IMO, the best solution would be to put a hard cap on the number of ships attacking any given mission-critical objective, because increasing the objective’s health too much would effectively make the missions impossible to lose at the low end of the difficulty scale just as they are very nearly impossible to win at the high end.

1 Like

Ten assault frigates? They need to re-balance their mission balance algorithm. There’s no way ten assault frigates is a reasonable number.

A lot of the ship balance decisions also need to be re-evaluated. I’m not sure why the Multi-Gun Corvette is now slower but more heavily armored than the Heavy Corvette, for instance, and I don’t know why the Turanic and Kadeshi ships have all been neutered. The Kadesh missions I’ve found to be neutered in terms of the number of ships that come at me too; I went in with three destroyers and only ever saw 9 Multi-Beam Frigates; playing through the 1999 version I had to fight seventeen of them. That’s not even touching on the fragility of frigates in general, either.

As noted elsewhere, the strength of the fleet you jump in with determines how many/few ships the enemy has to begin with. Since the Bentusi mothership’s health is set no matter what, this means if you enter the mission with a very powerful fleet you are going to have a very hard time and perhaps after a certain tipping point the mission is impossible.

My fleet composition for completing this mission was 1 missile destroyer, 2 destroyers, 1 heavy cruiser, 32 multigun corvettes, 10 salvage corvettes and a couple of support frigates. I made use of the fact that even while the camera is panning in the very intro (before the cinematic starts) you can give move or move-attack orders to your capitol ships. Sending my big ships into action immediately. From there the trick is getting the enemy ships, primarily the DDs and CA to focus their power on you instead of the Bentusi. Be sure to send your ships above or below the Bentusi mothership. That thing blocks line of fire. :wink:

If you’re having trouble, you can preempt the cinematic by moving your fleet forward before the story kicks in. Then once you’re put back in charge your fleet is literally on top of the bad guys.

You can also just hit “esc” to skip the cinematic and get right back to your commanding, which should buy you some time.

Lastly, I’ve found that the Taiidan ships trying to shoot me and vice versa let the Bentusi get caught in the crossfire VERY easily. As such, my solution was to move my capitol ships sort of diagonally to the right, so as to make sure not to catch my friends with the big guns.

Hope some of this helps!

Yea i finally got thru it, and finished the campaign. Basically i found that my old HW1 strategy’s no longer work in RE (for obvious reasons). Except in a few missions. Like Bridge of Sighs, and Karo’s Graveyard. Some missions i was pleasantly surprised. Others were a lesson in frustration, and a few just basically glitched out (Kadesh).

Once i adapted a HW2 strategy into some things the campaign became a “cake walk” so to speak. Still the ability to band select salvage would have helped me save more cryo trays in mission 3.

I think the game is very well balanced up to your pop cap. As soon as you start exceeding your pop cap you will run into problems, and rightly so. I have had very fun and good fights on my no salvage run through, far more so, than on the salvage everything that isn’t nailed down style play.

Let’s be honest here, as much as salvaging all the things is the hallmark of HW1, it is still cheese :wink:

I very quickly adapted to the new play style that comes with Homeworld remastered (as opposed to HW 1 classic). This basically meant I start with light corvettes and never ever build interceptors or bombers. I evenly split between multi gun and heavy corvettes. I focus on assault frigates over Ion frigates with drone frigs mixed in. It seems a 2/4 split of missile and normal destroyers work best as well. Also, 70 defenders will kill a HC in no time at all (heck ANYTHING not surprisingly, 30 damage times 70 is almost 3 destroyers worth firing non stop with high accuracy and much more durable than said destroyers).

Most missions I can complete with little to no losses. You just got to use your noggin and not go chees’n.

I mix my fleets up. I go with 7/6/2 for my frigate line. 7 assaults 6 Ions, 2 drone frigs. The rest support frigs.

I gotta have some bombers in my strike craft squads. Though my strike craft are mostly Heavy/Multigun combos.

Agreed on the 4/2 arrangement for destroyers. Combined with my frigate line i don’t get many losses. Except when engaging heavy cruisers.

This is, in part, because every Ion cannon is a Homeworld 2 version.

You remember how Hiigaran Battlecruisers would EAT FRIGATES ALIVE and roast destroyers with their Ion beams? Now imagine that effect for every ion-carrier in Homeworld 1.

I haven’t compared the numbers but it kind of makes sense. Turns ion cannon frigates into glass cannons and everything better than a Destroyer a superior capital killer no matter the armor. The Emperor’s House went down mighty fast under the guns of three Heavy Cruisers. So a vulnerable Bentusi ship isn’t unexpected.

Also, the Kadeshi motherships are no longer a threat because they completely removed ramming and their ion weapons. Oh well…