The Dev Talk - Ask everything here, to keep it all together

(jag) #580

Funny you’re telling me to open my mind when you’re the one getting so defensive at people simply raising their concerns.

Anyway, not gonna argue with people who think racism is over. However innocent the purpose was, I do believe it comes off looking like blackface and it’s kind of disappointing, and I’m glad at OP for bringing it up so that perhaps it can be addressed.

(Vensaval) #581

I don’t think we even have to argue if you’re going to sit here and tell me that racism is really still an issue at large.

You do know that society as a whole completely condemns the few actual racists that still exist, right?

My being defensive about people being closed-minded enough to be offended over an alternate skin in a video game is only because I’m tired of seeing people choosing to be offended by the most minute details in anything ever to exist.

If you really feel (key word here) that an Egyptian-style skin for Ambra is reminiscent of blackface, then that’s just too damn bad.

(Ryoung1989) #582

Donald Trump is a viable candidate for the president of the United States. I don’t think racisms dead.

Yep, brought politics into play. Have fun.

(Vensaval) #584

As much as I don’t care for the man, Donald Trump isn’t actually a racist. He’s more of a rich, egotistical, narcissistic moron with a chip in his shoulder.

At any rate, I have no interest in participating in political debate.

(Is this thing on?) #585

As a standard thing in theatre/film/vaudeville, yes. But unfortunately people still do it, and not just in the US either.

Not the person you’re responding to, but while overt racism is mostly frowned upon, there’s still an awful lot of racist attitudes and behaviour out there today. And I say this as someone who’s about as white as you can get without using titanium dioxide. I wish it wasn’t true, but I’ve seen it right on my own doorstep, so to speak. (And I’m not even talking about the current political posturing just south of the border here either)

(kmb0396) #586

i agree with this. wow this thread really went to hell while i was gone :frowning:

(kmb0396) #587

yeah even recently at the emmys or oscars or whatever it was i dont remember, billy crystal did it for example. it’s ridiculous to argue that blackface is over, much less racism as a whole.

this thread turned into a cess pool, op was just trying to talk about a concern they had in a game they really like and care about but people are trying to make them argue their case for racism even being real! stupid.

(you either skate or you die.) #588

This thread is a hot hot HOT steamy mess, so I doubt any devs/anyone actually involved in either creating the skin or potentially changing it will wade in and see this, but: yeah, I really agree that it seems incredibly distateful and misaimed?

If it’s disclosed that like, yeah, Sustainment makes you a cool weird shiny pale cyborg and Ambra’s skin isn’t actually her skin, this is what she used to look like or something, etc, then…well, it still comes off as kind of misaimed, but at least there wasn’t a malicious or thoughtless intent?

But if the thought process was closer to “haha let’s make an ~Egyptian skin~ for this notably pasty white character” then. Well, there are, uh, maybe better ways to go around approaching that theme?

I know it immediately gets brushed off as like, stupid teenage tumblr girls having their ess jay double-you feelings hurt, but a) that’s a real dumb way to classify what does and doesn’t matter and b) y’all know other adults can look at something that looks a whole lot like blackface and think “yikes, that looks like blackface”, right?

I dunno, it’s not something that affects me personally, but generally I trust Gearbox and give Gearbox my money all the time because it feels like they aren’t gonna pull this kinda thing. Learn from Tiny Tina, maybe.

( GT Mr Caldarius ) #589

okokok politics,insults and talks about weather racism is real or not this is defiantly the time when i step out of the thread

(Vensaval) #590

I’m right there with you. I pretty much wasted my time and only served to give myself a headache.

(Is this thing on?) #591

…who “dances like an Egyption” and is obvioualy a riff on the whole ancient Egyptian sun god(ess) thing. Yes, it would have been better to go with gold/blue than gold/bronze, but it wasn’t just a “hey lets make this particular skin look Egyptian” thing. Ra Ra Ra!

(you either skate or you die.) #592

I’m well aware Ambra’s got an Egyptian theme going on. I’m pretty sure the problem is when it crosses from cute pop-cultural references to, uh, something that LOOKS more like a racist Halloween costume?

I apologize if I made it sound as if the creators wouldn’t have put a lot of thought and time into any skin or other piece of content they made, or as if they pulled that theme out of nowhere. It’s because I think they did put a lot of time, effort and love into it that I’d hope it could maybe be…revised, if it’s seen that some of the player base is concerned or put-off by it?

What drew me to Battleborn was the cheesy but sweet premise that it was a shooter for everyone. I know that can be interpreted as just a different playstyle for everyone, but I had kind of hoped it would also mean a game as many of their players as possible would feel…well, “safe” is a silly word to describe that with, especially on a video game forum, for Christ’s sake, but…not mocked or made fun of or made hugely uncomfortable by part of the game? And I think that skin could do that for a not-invisible number of people, and since it hypothetically is solvable, it seems like a good, or at least not-stupid, thing to mention in a place where a dev could witness it.

(Vensaval) #593

How could a simple Egyptian-themed skin for a character in a video game with an already Egyptian influence possibly make someone feel moc—

Oh, forget it . . .

(the one person that likes capture ) #594

how exactly is this racist?

(Jjand302) #595

Hey mods, can we get this argument moved into its own thread? It’s gotten a bit hostile and has definitely derailed this thread imo

(Magic is everything) #596

I have this exact same issue with Meltdown on PC. Played a lot of games, started winning roughly 90% of them, suddenly I can no longer find a game on Meltdown. The other 2 modes are completely fine though, so I’m just stuck playing incursion hoping that one day I can return to my favorite game mode.

(In Vino Veritas) #597

I’m going to go slightly out of character here and address a plethora of flags I’ve received between two sides of this debate.

On a nearly daily basis, myself and the other moderators are either tasked with removing threads which outright have insulted/demeaned/mocked Geabox’s stance on inclusiveness. Or in some instances received direct PMs laced with pejorative terms due to our decision to refuse to allow derogatory terms towards certain groups.

Gearbox have done their best over the years to make a wide array of characters which represent their player base. Not only for the value that has intrinsically to a player, but also for the good character design that diversity allows for and promotes.

And here we are, once again tightening the noose around the good guys. Attempting to find an instance of cultural appropriation in something as mild as a change in gradient is where we start losing touch with what this is all about.

I genuinely hope that those who may have made an allegation recognize that tripping up companies who’ve made strides against the generic mono-structure of protagonist expectations is counter productive. The accusations will pile up against Gearbox, and they’ll do their best to remedy something that they were never responsible for perpetrating in the first place, out of nothing more than a moral obligations to their fans.

Bring Gearbox to the gibbet if you please. But when we’re left with nothing but those who couldn’t give a damn about a genuinely good issue, I suggest we remember who the executioners were all along.

The internet as a whole is a vitriol filled mess of politics and partisan crap. Where everyone finds some reason to divide and seemingly no one finds a reason to come together. This is a place that can genuinely be devoid of that. A little nook where a bunch of us can dream up fantastical worlds where the heroes take on Hyperion and win, and Rendain has his days numbered.

But no. We seek to dredge up the same issues that we can find in any other crevice of the internet?

We’ve got something good here folks, lets not muck this up by letting the sludge seeping over the levies of the rest of the web actually begin affecting us.

I’m going to leave all the comments on the matter up, but that is the end of it. Any FURTHER comments should be in their own individual threads.

I truly hope we as users reflect on our choice of words when we choose to field accusations.

(YourVillain) #599

Actually that was meant to be offensive. He was an out of touch actor that didn’t know when he went to far. That was the whole point of the joke
"Colar up some greens". He was ignorant that he was being offensive by playing on racial stereotype WHILE in blackface.

But yea, I don’t think the Amrba thing is the same thing

(Kapeller77) #600

So as I was playing BB the other night I had a very simple thought about how the main menu screen worked…and how I wasn’t necessarily a huge fan of it… It’s not actually the functionality of the menu screen that I have a problem with, nor does it have anything to do with them. The menu system in the game seems to work pretty nicely! My thought was I wish my party and I could run around the ship and we could go to these places and activate the corresponding menu for a specified area… So the armory would be where you equipped gear to your loadouts, the bridge is where you would select a mission, etc. All the other heroes you aren’t are just chilling in the different areas of the ship and you could go talk to them and get some backstory maybe even side missions. This is more of an RPG (Highwind FF7) approach I get that but this game is not a normal ARTS … I feel like this would immerse the player into the game even more.
I don’t want to make this like the tower in Destiny or whatever like a social space cause that just wouldn’t make sense for the game but for you and your party it could be a cool in between mission space especially if you through some mini games on board like darts, chess, tag, (haha tag, just thought of that one) paintball sounds cool too (running through the ship shooting paintballs?..sure why not!) I know this is probably not something doable at this point in the game. But it was a thought that crept up during playing and I wanted to share it. Thanks!

(Acreticfoot) #601

I’m wondering if the bug described in this thread is an issue with steam or the game itself.