The Flak over Fl4k and what it cost

Sorry Pyschic, but I’m linking this thread in the “Which Character are going to Play First” thread so people stop filling that one up with nonsense. I hate to divert the nonsense here, but as much as I love the openness of the posters in this thread, I can’t stand the drivel that’s being brought up on every other Fl4k thread.

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You have no idea how much slack we having been giving people in this thread. We have been giving lots. Lots of slack.

However, we’re now returning to normal service. We have to assume that further breaches of the rules are deliberate.

If you wish to discuss this, pm is the way to go.

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Good luck.

there’s even a sticky.

I’m gonna write a comment in here addressing all the Top 40 Pop Hits Of Discourse by the end of tonight that, if y’all read and think “yeah, that covers that well enough” we could just keep replying the link to? Not telling anyone what to do, but I think at this point we could use a Forum Loop 4 Kommon-comments comment.

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Apparently Reddit is having this same issue, but they’ve banned all discussion regarding FL4K’s gender. Here, there is a 1,700 post thread discussing the issue ad nauseum, and it’s HERE that people complain about censorship.

One place asks you to use words. The other bans an entire topic of discussion. Tell me which place is censoring again? And for the record, I appreciate the work that the Reddit mods do, and know I would’ve done the same thing in their shoes. Just reading the some trite arguments for the millionth time is tiresome, I can’t imagine how dreadful it must be to moderate this mess.

And again, before anyone says anything, there have been DOZENS of posts at this point arguing what you are about to post more thoughtfully, eloquently, and with more care and research behind it than the angry tweet you’re about to leave for the devs. It’s been said by now. If you can’t at least add something new to this discussion, then at least just like the other posts that have said what you want to say so we don’t need to read the same thing for the millionth time.

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Yeah, I’ve summarised most of the standpoints that I’ve seen over and over. Was going to write a comprehensive reply that covered those points but I had stuff to do irl.

I mean, I’d prefer individuals to respond to individuals rather than with cut and paste or link but I certainly l understand anyone that no longer has the patience left to do that.

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Yeah, fair, it’s just exhausting waking up to the same cycle of things we’ve already said. Again, not saying anyone should do anything specific, I’m just gonna try to get a solid congregation of “been there, done that” highlights, formatted to be readable like a sorta FAQs. If I can pull it off. I just had a long day at work. But I technically fixated on this and won’t be able to stop until I at least try.

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Godspeed Sam. I don’t think I can stand to read through this entire thread a second time.:dizzy_face::dizzy_face:

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Pm it to me before posting it, if you do manage to get something down, yeah?

Just to see if you missed something, or if I think it could be added to the pinned post at the top of the Flak section.

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This thread is getting hotter each day, however discussion is like a broken record.

Oh, cool. And you might be able to temper any of the less desirable elements out of it. See ya in the box!

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By the way, just thought I’d mention that this official promo covering the basics of the game was released today and in it you can hear Lilith deliberately using she/her/hers when talking about Moze and Amara, he/him/his when talking about Zane (his title card even reads “as himselves” referring to him and his digi-clone) and THEY/THEM/THEIR when talking about FL4K:

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I just want to make a point before I let it fall. The Main thing is that, whether intentionally or otherwise, this has just been made into, as the literal thousands have shown, that this has been thrown into a political ring. Borderlands 1&2are huge. They reach millions of people. Having any character fit the bill of ANY group in the spotlight makes a giant target on the game. And the moderators, however we’ll they mean, are human, grow tired, and want to not deal with something. Which is very bad pr. Letting that frustration out in public, which has been shown many times thus far, can have serious consequences and I don t want that, it would destroy a franchise I enjoy very much. So, the flak is inevitable. It’s going to happen. And I hope that people who are here in the front lines have the patience to understand that each person makes a statement here with the hopes of being heard due to their own beliefs in social and personal thinking.

It is very tiring to be in that position. But closing off lines because it’s too much or annoying, that simply means the mitigating persons present a… Rather gruff measure towards people whom do NOT agree with the message and, unintentional or purposeful, backing of a political social agenda will have backlash no matter what.

Believe what you feel is right for you. I personally don’t believe in non-binary. To support a non-binary system you would need asexual reproduction and humans are not capable of that. Does that mean it invalidates someone elses opinion of themselves? Nope. It’s just my opinion… that’s all it is.
Fl4k to me seems to be male but thats just cause of the voice they gave it. If the voice was a female tone then thats what i would see Fl4k as. If you see an AI in a movie you probably think the same thing. Just like Jarvis and Friday in the Marvel universe. One seems distinctly male and the other seems distinctly female, just because of the voice provided. And for those assigning feeling to a robot… AI in no way means a robot feels anything. It just means the robot is self aware of it’s existence. They have no nervous system so any attempt at human like senses or feelings is not by feeling but just by sensors and lines of code.
God help us if AI ever becomes a reality. They would have no compassion, empathy, remorse, nor the capacity to feel love. That is a truly terrifying thought.

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Which I take it means that people who identify as non-binary should be free to do so, yes?

The term ‘non-binary’ does not refer to sexual reproduction; a person who identifies as non-binary could have either male or female sexual organs. it has more to do with how they see themselves as a person. This is has been explained (and links provided) up-thread. I strongly suggest that anyone who wants to express an opinion on the matter read that information first (or at least look up some sources) first.

And to re-iterate:

If any individual is uncomfortable with the way FL4K’s character has been written, I suggest they simply head-cannon it however works for them.

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Them

from Lowcostcosplay

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And FL4K wouldn’t be dissociative unless they were told they were human ? But the character bio states they think the constructs of humans are strange. Unless they’re an alien and can’t relate to being a robot told they’re a human? :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

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Fl4k is human controlled in the game.

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This. In my head Fl4k is male, and everywhere outside of these forums I will call Fl4k a he. Here, I will respect Gear’s and non-binary people’s wishes and refer to Fl4k as they or them.

However, forcing me to use a specific pronoun to refer to a fictional video game character feels slightly Orwellian to me.

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  1. They aren’t forcing you.
  2. You use the preferred pronouns of literally every other fictitious character ever, yes? You call Batman “he/him”? You refer to Hermione Granger as “she/her”? You cite the T-800 Terminator as “he/him”? Why should FL4K be different? What is hard about “They/Them”? It’s 1-2 more letter to type out. How is asking you to give this character the same amount of respect you give all other fictional characters similar to a totalitarian regime which seeks to police and control everything about your life or “get rid of” you if you don’t conform to the cookie cutter standard? That’s something I typically see from people who try to sweep non-binary people under the rug.
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