Fair enough. I would, however, encourage you to find and read the posts by some of those here who identify as nonbinary as to why this subject is important to them - there is a search function on the site that you can limit to the current topic. It never hurts to try and understand another person’s point of view.
I’m stating my interpretation of what you said. I’m restating what you said as it sounds to me while reading it.
Created by writers who may or may not identify as non-binary.
I don’t think we have enough foresight. Why can’t we look 20 years into the future and decide how woke our progressive relatives will most likely be? Why stop at misgendering? We need tp stop MISMATTERING. What kind or bigots are we to assume that FL4K even wants to be referred to as existing? Automatically assuming he consists of matter is a gross assumption of mass which FL4K may not even want? Did you ever consider that? Just my 2 cents.
Outside of this controversy, he’s a pretty cool character choice.
If they didn’t consist of matter they would have to consist of pure energy. I don’t think that would have quite the same effect for an action-RPG playable character. Let’s not get carried away with the satire though, and please read the linked post (see up thread) about the gender pronouns that you were directed to in your other thread - thanks.
I have read them, and respect them. And just to be clear, I am a hard left progressive politically. Setting rules on how we address fictional characters just rubs me the wrong way.
I wonder, Fl4k might’ve been a male character a while before the developers decided to make ‘he’ a ‘they’. Just a thought.
Has it actually been confirmed that Lorelei goes by male pronouns? Lorelei being voiced by a trans actor doesn’t automatically make the character transgender. I think Lorelei might have been called “sir” by a couple of soldiers in some of the missions we’ve already seen, but that could be just a military thing. Other than the “sir” thing, I’m pretty sure I’ve only seen female pronouns being used when referring to the character. It’d be nice to get some confirmation on this matter.
But even if Lorelei is in fact transgender, I still fail to see how that’s relevant to the issue of proper non-binary representation in the game, since transgender and non-binary are two different things and giving representation to one doesn’t mean you’re automatically giving representation to both. Also, Lorelei is just a NPC, so the weight of representation is not the same. Getting to play as a non-binary/trans character is different and matters a lot more than just getting to interact with a non-binary/trans character during a couple of missions.
EDIT: I did some digging and apparently even Ciáran Strange, the trans actor who voices Lorelei, is using female pronouns when talking about the character on Twitter and saying that as far as he knows, Lorelei goes by she/her. So it could be the point you’re trying to make there is moot, since it seems Lorelei is neither non-binary or transgender. But who knows, maybe it could be the other way around and she was actually born a man who transitioned to female.
lol, attacking? LOL.
get real. i’m stating my opinion about Fl4k.
This is a good theory. i’ve heard other insiders refer to Fl4k as “he”. Maybe at some point Fl4k was officially male at the point in the story line where we stand right now.
What you’re describing is innocuous! There are so many situations in life in which one is required to use language in a way that doesn’t necessarily come naturally or isn’t one’s own first choice. Writing essays at school, a CV, talking to young children, meeting people in foreign countries… We are required every single day to follow different language rules as part of a social contract. The issue of pronouns at Gearbox is a derivative footnote in the history of censorship.
I appreciate you’re not trying to troll or necessarily cause offence and I don’t mean to seem dismissive of your feelings. But it’s horrible to see claims which have real connotations of fascism and cruelty emerge in this context.
The mods here can obviously take care of themselves I know. But I’ve been a member here for a long time and have had some of the best fun I’ve had on the internet, as well as getting support through tough times, and of course having Borderlands discussion. A team of volunteers mans this place to make sure asshats and people who’ve turned up to ruin that fun don’t have a window like they do everywhere else. It’s really grim to see that work labelled as menacing or oppressive. So yeah, I understand people feel strongly about these issues, but I do wish everyone would take this down a notch.
But it’s not much of a spoiler when the voice actors themselves are putting it out there to promote themselves and gain a bigger fan base. After this whole spectacle it’s going to bring attention to the voice actors who are trying to gain a bigger momentum because they themselves are YouTubers and it’s a way of self promotion, how much searching and curiosity for ProZD happened after this? I’m sure ALOT, to gain more subs to their channel. It’s pure advertisement by getting people riled up. When you then research the voice actor behind the character and see that THEY actually represent the character, like Lorelei, then you say “Ahhh makes sense, Awesome!”
He wasn’t talking to you. Also, it seems to me he might actually be on your side on this. That is if you even have a clear side on this. I really can’t tell anymore
maybe i’m under the remote mind control of Zontar as well
All of your points are valid, and I definitely agree that we should all take it down a notch. I’ve expressed how I feel about the rule, and tried to clear up any misconceptions about my point of view - that’s good enough for me. I won’t comment or complain about it any longer, and instead focus on the fun and hilarious mayhem that is Borderlands.
September 13th, here we come!
Yeah, sorry for the strong words. I’m super-pumped for it too! Have fun in the Borderlands.
PSA: SPOILER TAGS
I’ve already seen couple of posts with what amount to spoilers in this thread. As a courtesy to those trying to avoid such things could folks please use the built-in spoiler tags for in future?
If you click on the gear wheel icon in the editor, you’ll see the ‘Hide Details’ and ‘Blur Spoiler’ items that paste the relevant codes into your draft for you. Or you can just add them manually:
[spoiler]hidden text here[/spoiler]
[details="Summary"] This text will be hidden [/details]
That point makes my point even more valid!! If I was that voice actor I would hope they would use me an inspiration to a characters story arc and be the tool to open up dialogue for any or all issues that don’t consist of CIS gendered characters, it’s a bridge, not saying they’re the same but they’re more closely related than being CIS or just gay/lesbian and coming off feminine or masculine. It’s kind of a slap in the face to the voice actor to not be able to use this as a platform for them to educate people on an issue. And so what if it’s an NPC? They’ll have more dialogue then a playable character and more substance to them. All fans of BL have fallen in love with NPCs over their chosen playable character due to how saturated their story and dialogue is/was. Why do you think Tiny Tina wasn’t written out? She’s a fan favorite for a reason. So npc vs playable character means nothing.
To that, I’ll only say this: If FL4K was a npc instead of a playable character, this thread wouldn’t be nearly 1700 posts long and most people who are so vehemently against non-binary representation wouldn’t actually care that much about it. Yes, it matters a lot whether the character is a side-character or one of the protagonists, and it matters to both sides in the discussion. People usually don’t care all that much about representation when it’s relegated to the sidelines, where it can be easily ignored. They’ll only make a big deal out of it when it gets the spotlight.
I remember reading Nineteen Eighty-Four.
Had to do it for class, but I nearly couldn’t get through it.
There was one scene where a privately owned company, in passing, asked their users on a forum to try to be polite to one another over an issue that at the moment was politically divisive regardless of the fact that they were still welcome to discuss it. They’d gone so far as to say that no one would be penalized (exclusively on that forum) unless they clearly used the terminology in excess in order to prey on that specific group of people.
I went pale while reading it. The professor had lured us in to a false sense of security by first reading Slaughterhouse Five, and then following that light read with that image of the future.
In my particular case I’ve come to figure out that some of the content creators who were reporting on the issue were doing so to receive “clicks” to their respective channels (I should have known that) and of course they were implying that bans were already happening on the forum.
I’ve since talked to many folks on the forum here and know that is not the case. I also now understand the specific issue/question concerning FL4K and how people feel about the use of certain pronouns when discussion, and/or, addressing that particular character. I have to admin I didn’t fully understand what was going on and was only going by the “hype” I learned about from the content creators. I won’t make that mistake again.
I know it’s also hard to keep up with all the responses on this issue and it seemed that for 1-2 days last week that’s all my YT feed had were vids talking about it. I think by now most people on here understand what’s going on. They’ve seen the official response from Gearbox and have seen comments from the mods on here. I’m good on the topic and I hope most others are as well.