The Flak over Fl4k and what it cost

Yup. & those limitations are not being done in here.

Some thoughts:

  1. People are capable of multitasking. Someone can come on this forum during a lunch break at work and debate FL4K, AND be concerned about the homeless. As a New Yorker, and someone who has to deal with homelessness in my community quite often, I HATE it when people invoke homelessness as “that thing we should really be focusing on”. I don’t mean this as an attack on anyone here, but 99% of the time when someone says that, they will continue not to do a damn thing themselves to help the homeless.

  2. Honest question: For everyone saying that they should have tried harder to make FL4K less masculine, how would they do so? Do masculine men never identify as non-binary? Honest question, I have no idea, so it seems strange to me that people who, by definition don’t identify with either gender, can only be publicly accepted if they are one gender.

  3. To the point that people need to be convinced with facts: I get this is a long thread, but a lot of research has been posted in this thread already. I don’t think even the opposition to using they/them would agree that gender characteristics have not been a static concept, even in the West. Also, as much as I hate the appeal to authority, how far could we get in this discussion without medical professionals actually providing input? As was said earlier, we’re all idiots on the internet arguing about this stuff, but as far as I know, no one in this thread has the scientific pedigree to prove Logically (as in using the scientific method, peer reviewing, repeating experiments to verify results) anything that has been said here. We can only refer to the research that has been done, and understand it to the best of our ability. But we are still using incomplete or perhaps flawed understandings and putting them against other flawed and incomplete understandings. It’'s doubtful anyone here will be moved.

  4. Please someone answer this question. It may be the most valuable thing to come out of this thread.
    FOR ANYONE WHO HAS FELT ATTACKED, OR THAT FELT THEY WERE SPOKEN TO IN A WAY THAT WAS SNARKY OR RUDE, PLEASE QUOTE THE PASSAGE IN QUESTION AND WHY YOU FEEL THAT WAY! Apologies for the excessive caps, but I want to really emphasize that. For the life of me, after lurking around on reddit, YT comments, and reading through this thread, I just don’t see where people are seeing this snark or condescension that I keep reading people feel. Please, spell it out for us so we can adjust our approach.

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I expect it’s sport at this time. Perhaps it’s like buzkashi where the match goes on for days and days, ends when one team collapses from their horses and the winners behead the losers.

Sound like fun? No?

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Isn’t that cricket? Oh wait.

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Because Professor Jak taught me that self plagiarism is a thing, and I’m not about to go through my old notes to find how to cite myself in-text for online forum posts.

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I’m doing my best to get as much information and thought in here as I can, as coherently as possible

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This discussion still strong.

Well a daily dose again of nonsense from me

This is Bart Simpson

It’s nothing new that a voice actor provides the voice for a character of the opposite gender.

Examples being Timmy Turner, Bobby Hill, Goku (Japanese). That’s all that comes to mind off the top of my head

& you’re proving the point that I & many others made; that anyone on the opposite side of this whole debate is indeed basing it the whole premise off feelings and not facts.
Thanks girlfriend! :kissing_heart:

But a -by common habit/slip of the tongue-
mistakenly half of the time, call this character the wrong pronoun then it’s offensive or hurtful and inciting WWIII?

See, again how this whole issue is based off a feeling to protect people from not having to deal with others realities, instead of including others to your cause, you exclude/isolate/segregate yourselves if someone at face value doesn’t immediately accept you.

The whole point of this thread is to not maliciously intend to misgender to avoid offending people.

So it’s only the robot we can’t misgender But you are ok with misgendering when it comes to a real person, ME, not a man, and then continue to do so after being corrected, that’s not malicious intent though?
(The very thing NB are fighting for in and out of this thread; to be identified as to what they feel/think/know they are and not by what you predetermined them as)

All I said was I can relate to this feeling in a different way- due to past events in my life- and if you go about trying to make people understand you in a negative manner you will get negative results?
How’s that self absorbed?

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Right but she puts on a character voice just like Ash from Pokémon or Tommy Pickles to disguise their voice so you would never realize it’s a woman behind the character and would just think they have a funny voice.
FL4Ks voice does not sound like both, its not hard to decipher for people what gender it’s supposed to sound like. That’s why people inherently are going to naturally go with a male pronoun. Because in their experiences it sounds like one.

Bobs Burgers doesn’t try to hide the fact that’s a male voice, that’s what makes it funny.

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Next up we have @AdamOver. You asked how many people silently watched this and decided not to buy because of it. And I’d venture it’s probably a similar number to people who saw this and went “oh, this is super cool” and no where near the number of people who just don’t care.

But here, since we’re at it, let’s talk about something some people call “virtue signaling” and I call “alternative ad based demographic moderating”. So. Virtue signaling is often used to describe someone just saying insert “political” stance here. It’s generally referring to someone who just states what they believe while not doing much in the way of teaching or giving new information.

So. What this is doing is often testing the water for who will be interested in your main product. By throwing out a lot of polarizing statements, you manage to filter in people who are aligned with you, and filter out people who are absolutely against you. In essence, you can help prove a community is a little bit safer for queer people by being vocally proud of your queer characters, because it tends to push the “HOW DARE THEY” crowd further away. It’s not a perfect system. But it does help.

Now. Why was your Pork Chop comment inappropriate? Because people aren’t pork chops. That’s very apparent. As I mentioned in my above posts, there is science to do with the way we feel and perceive gender, and how it affects us. The same is not to be said about race (which is based on regions from which one descends), age (a measure of time between when you stopped being in a uterus and started breathing this air), or species (…come on. Just. Really?). And it’s basically rude insinuation of trans-phobic rhetoric to compare trans people stating their gender to calling yourself something you are most obviously not.

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Next ad hominem gets the thread shut down and ruins the ‘fun’ for everyone.

Say what you want to say without getting personal people.

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Whooomp. There it is.

4th time we’re having to close the thread to scale back on just baseless ad hominem attacks, and it has now become a cyclical argument of nothing more than insults. Hope everyone said their part. Shame it couldn’t remain civilized as it had been for nearly 2000 posts.

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