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Over the years, I have made SO MANY cool builds that I LOVE to play ā¦that only work at OP0 or lessā¦ so I never posted them 
ā¦And I probably canāt remember half of them now
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Which would be fine, butā¦
- The thought that Iām just being lazy to get less DPS gets at me. Not to mention that no one really uses SMGās for damage but Maya, and she has Ruin and Scorn.
- The other 2/3 arenāt a damaging element. I basically never use a shock gun while mobbing.
A little outside the point
- Pimpernel - 12 chances at 64.8% slag chance each means that the odds youāll need a follow up shot are extremely low, even against enemies that resist DoTs. Not to mention it is the only one sniper Zer0 can use.
- Grog - Except that Iām not going to use both. The special affects on the Grog cause me to not even want to use the Slagga on the characters I use it on. That may be outside your point, but the Grog is good enough (better IMO) to not use 2 slag weapons on Sal, melee Zer0, etcā¦
- Slowhand - I donāt like it anyway.
This probably plays into our difference in opinions, as in the end I only think in terms of min/maxing. But I also just like perfecting everything in general, so for something like Backdraft Maya, the Banshee COM is āperfectā.
That being said the Florentine doesnāt satisfy either for me, and in fact Iād say itās one of the lamer uniques. No offence to anyone, but to me itāsā¦
An interesting unique
Effective
Lazy
So in the end Iād be much more forgiving of the gun if it wasāt shock, or if it only cost one ammo per shot. Even then it wouldnāt be for me, but at least I wouldnāt oppose its use.
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I donāt think so.
Comparing it to the Slagga is a bit unfair since they donāt shine at the same tasks.
If you use it as a slag tool only, then yes it sucks by that yardstick. However it is more than just a slag tool.
Yeah, probably 
But it has its appeals by that measure.
ālook mom, no swapping!ā
āThatās nice dearā
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I meant my response to your quote, but I know it wasnāt very clear from the way I wrote the summary.
(Itās a drop down)
3 Likes
Ahhh! Didnāt see that
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You very rarely get to hit with all pellets and if you have more than one target, you HAVE TO shoot more than once. You could also miss that first shot. And it takes a long time to bring out and put away.
The Slagga takes care of everything in a cone in front of you. No aiming, no discrimination: everyone turns purple.
Donāt get me wrong, the Pimp is an AWESOME slagger, but I think the Slagga is a bit better.
Very much outside my point in fact. If I was to carry a grog anyway, I probably would not also carry another slag gun. I was comparing them as slag tools only.
fair enough 
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That seems weird, even by my standards.
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All I see is Hate on the Florentine, whereās the Love?
My take,
Slagga is easier to woo than the Florentine, You just have to try a few times before you get her, you donāt even need her to be perfect to love her, she doesnāt need to be on your level either to please you. For the Florentine, even though she is always available you will have a hard time to get her and before you get her you need to get approval of her big invincible brothers. And when you do get her and take her out for a spin, you will always feel the need to go back to the imperfect Slagga you always have.
9 Likes
I remember my first Slagga: she had a Dahl grip and a mag size accessory and was underleveled by 1ā¦ but she still came through for me every single time.
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Melee-heavy Maya is hilarious. āBullets are for getting back upā
OP3 is a great balance for me. I have @adabiviak to thank for moving house there.
I actually find the Grog quite annoying as a slag toolā¦ Accuracy and low mag size cause me frustration. Anyone else have this? I only really use it with melee Zer0 though, Salvador may be a lot better. Also my melee Zer0 is under quite a lot of pressure to deal out slag very quickly before he disappears.
Can you play at OP8 until youāve built a heap of Florentines and set light to them?
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The accuracy and low mag size donāt bother me as much as the slow projectile speed (so harder to hit moving enemies) and the intoxication that comes with it when you donāt want it.
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Thatās about it. I was VERY reluctantly let him have a Grog when I started raiding and running the Peak at OP8.
That said, Adabiviak predicted, it turned my PBFG into a Norfleet with the drunk effect - and thatās pretty cool.
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This argument wins. You made the Slagga sound like that Bandit girl from the trailer park that merits a wedding ring even though youāre going to have to raise 3 of her kids, one of whom is 3/4 your age and has a father getting paroled next week. 
8 Likes
Personally my only other character that uses SMGs is one of my Zer0s. After that no one uses SMGs for damage except Beehawking on Axton, but that doesnāt count as a Florentine will never replace it in that situation.
Iām talking about optimized builds that are the communityās standard of effective. Things like melee Maya or even most true Allegiance builds donāt reach this standard in my mind. Other things like the Shadow of the Seraphs are TG worthy, but unless youāre using a Bekah (even then), youāre missing a lot of potential power on most characters for example. There is a difference between what is fun, and what is effective and synergizes with a character.
I make fun builds as well, but at the same time I donāt think the Excalibastard is all that great.
SMGs in particular tend to be a weak class over all by comparison, and this really shows in TPS. Even forgetting the fact that it isnāt a Sandhawk weāre talking about, but a Florentine, Iād rather useā¦
- Sal - pistols and shotguns
- Gaige - pistols (Fibber), shotguns, and launchers
- Krieg - shotguns
- Sniper Zer0 - snipers
- Melee Zer0 - the Rapier
- Axton - pistols, shotguns, and launchers
And those are just the premier options, SMGs still rank lower IMO most of the time.
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- Sal : shotguns
- Gaige : shotguns
- Krieg : shotguns
- Zero : shotguns ( except melee of course )
- Maya : shotguns
- Axton : shotguns
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Only Maya uses SMGs in optimum/effective builds? Well, I canāt claim to be good enough to be able to tell what counts as that and Iām not really looking for it, but that seems a bit odd. There are some very strong SMGs out there that non-Maya classes could surely consider highly effective? My Hellborn Krieg adores the Hellfire, Krieg and Axton can do crazily powerful things with Tediore plasma casters and the Baby Maker, the Bitch is great in generalā¦
My only character who doesnāt like them so much is Zer0, both melee and sniper, because heās all about getting damage out in short hard-hitting shots.
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Basically. Without an unique affect, any gun that isnāt a shotgun or sniper usually lacks sustained stopping power in BL2. Plasma Casters are the only exception, but since they arenāt in TPS I usually donāt include them when I say that.
In TPS (in my own mind) the epitomy of guns on every character is either a shotgun, laser, or sniper; and without Aurelia even snipers start to fall off. Nisha is the only one that breaks the mold with pistols, but thatās only because OFEoY is so strong.
I donāt include Tediore reloads when I make that statement, as they are basically grenades that use SMG ammo. And the difference between a Hellfire on those characters, and an Omen, is night and day. For Krieg the Twister, Blockhead, Carnage, Harold, etcā¦ just blow away anything that the SMG pool brings to the table.
My Cunning tree Zer0 actually quite likes a Bee-less Sandhawk, and even a Tattler too (I think). His bullet speed, Two Fang (as the recoil is a non-issue), and hesitation to get close to enemies means he synergizes well with them.
- Salvador - No synergy with MS or NKLO automatically puts them in a bad place, even on an enjoyment standard. And the only Hoarder build I personally like is one with Topneaas.
- Gaige - The LBT tree is shock locked and trash for impact damage. I only play Anarchy Gaige, and at higher stacks SMGs arenāt viable at all.
- Krieg - Diminishing returns FPS locked fire rate, massive mag increases, fast reloads, and the need to overkill enemies screams to use slow high powered guns balanced by their small mags. And if you add in Salt the Wound and Strip the Flesh, then thatās SGs again and there are no explosive SMGs.
- Plus surprisingly, Krieg has thee best overall accuracy increase in BL2 at 50%.
I donāt expect you to agree with me, as my view point is even extreme for someone like Chuck. But a trip to OP8 might make the difference more noticeable.
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I do play quite a bit at OP8, mostly in coop these days but I was up there in solo for a long time. Because my OP3 characters are almost all allegiances, itās fun to dip back up into OP8 and indulge in all brands at once from time to time! I cloned a save file when I got each of my characters to OP8 and then moved one version down to 3.
I moved down there so I had more control over balancing gear, which gets rid of basically all the restrictions being at OP8 brings in. There are some guns that I donāt think scale well and which deserve a ābuffā. I donāt have to do that for many SMGs, my Lascaux might be OP4 or 5. Itās mainly for guns like the Retcher, standard bandit assault rifles, most of my shields are at higher levels. Ad is my inspiration for all of it
Weāll have to agree to disagree about SMGs it seems, and this isnāt me in āI love the Tidal Waveā mode; even at OP8 there are a number that I think very much deserve their place in the top gear threads.
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Wellā¦I just finished doing the same.
I cloned my OP8 Maya, sold ALL her gear, punted her down to OP0 and bought the first things I saw in the Sanctuary vendors : a Breakneck Banshee, slag SubMalevolent Grace, shock Hed Shoter, roid shield and happened to have the mission open for a Law. This is perhaps the antithesis of what KhimeraKiller is putting forth.
In honour of the dayās bickering, Iāve named her Scorn. Sheās just arrived at Hammerlockās place.
7 Likes