The game is fun but gets dry really fast

I get you guys are going for the arena type feel but the game is just so dry. There is unlimited ammo, every ability that does damage instantly kills, and Im going to assume micro-Transactions? I feel like a company that has done so well in the past making a re-playable game is coming up short here. I signed up for this beta more hyped than I have ever been for a game and now I can barely play it. I’d love to see improvements because let me tell you, this game is beautiful. The abilities seem fun and it has a ranking system, but unless something is done about the dryness of the game I feel you guys might be dwarfed by other games that are also dropping this year (assuming this game is coming out this year or next). Call of Duty and battlefront 2 are the main concerns and I do not want to see potential wasted.

Thank you so much and I still love you and will continue to support you gearbox,
timstim356

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Thank you for pointing out the things you are enjoying. We always appreciate the feedback.

Could you please elaborate on what you feel is contributing to this dryness, as you call it? What could perhaps be adjusted to help with this? I see you mention the unlimited ammo and that you feel the abilities do too much damage. Are there other things that make up this unpleasant lack of moisture for you?

Well I know its early and the amount of content can not really be helped but some main things im seeing that sound great are to expand to maybe 2v2’s and 3v3’s and maybe add more dynamic map elements. With 1v1’s abilities like excalibur are busted. If a team had to defend it, it would be a hell of a lot more crazy. You guys nailed it with borderlands and I have no doubt youll fix it, but those are just a few starter problems ive encountered. That being said when i first got the game it was really really cool and fun. You guys have a lot of potential with this game straying away from the dull arena style. One thing that ive seen other arena games do (successfully, I was in the quake beta) is make classes or characters with special moves. Double jump can be assigned to the character currently available as maybe a passive of some sort. Then make maybe a tankier character that has a bigger model and more health. These can even be rare character cards if you guys want to stick with that. Id like to see this game as not pay to win as well.

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A mage type character would also be cool, maybe he/she can have more ability slots than normal at the cost of defense

More skill and less random “push and close eyes” and hope for the best.
(human flame ,meteor ect) Although fun your not really in control
Random spam are a lot of the frag’s

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The game is enjoyable and very fast paced. I see where you are going with the card based “KIT” deck system and it could work if they had a better description of each weapon and it’s stats. That being said the game does get stale “dry” after about 10 rounds or so. I know it’s early test but maybe different game modes other than just death match. Maybe Death Race? or Death Climber, protect the zone, capture the zone. I also agree 1 vs 1 is a decent idea but the ability to expand would be nice.

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Ha! The very cheek!

I enjoy the game, I also think the art direction is beautiful, and I also somewhat agree with the OP’s critique – though “dry” isn’t the metaphor I’d use.

I think tackling the learning curve is a major issue with a game like this. If I were to take a look back to the nostalgic days, to the Quakes and the Dukes and all the other fast-paced shooty LAN things, I would say that there were so few competitive shooter games, we were willing to take the time to brute force a game’s learning curve.

For example, take the Quake 2 Lithium mod:

When I first played this game, I was just padding everyone else’s killstreaks. A year later, my feet rarely touched the ground, as I flung myself around the map with the grapple, firing rockets and rails during a mid-air ballet.

How did I learn? By watching other players, in-game. Still, it was a pain in the ass, constantly being in the deep end. There was so much to learn, from ideal map routes to get powerups, to which weapons countered others in which scenarios. But there wasn’t a full Steam library of other awesome stuff to distract me or my opponents. In today’s gaming landscape, I’m not sure I’d even be willing to grind such a brutally steep curve.

So the average modern gamer has an even shorter attention span that I do, and if you want them to stick with something that’s highly skill-based, I think you have to make school fun and rewarding, which is very tough. However, in P1V1, the only way to watch someone else fight is via spectator mode. When I lack the foundation to understand a game’s core mechanics, I find learning as a spectator very difficult. Plus, no cookies at the end.

So what the alternative? Well, if there’s ever been a recipe I’ve gravitated towards, it’s been the practice modes in modern Capcom fighting games, which I think would fit P1V1. For example:

  • Player chooses a tutorial from a list – in this case, “Riding the Rail”.

  • A dialogue box pops up: “Fire the Railgun and ride the beam by pressing (ALTFIRE_BINDING) to quickly flank the enemy sentry and get into its blind spot – then take out the defending player first, and the sentry second!”, followed by an OK/Cancel selection.

  • Player is dropped into a small tutorial-specific map with limited texturing, similar to VR Training in Metal Gear Solid.

  • The player’s starting position is at the base of a plateau. On top of the plateau is a turret, with an enemy bot doing figure-eights in front of it, that fires rockets at any player drawing sentry aggro. There is an ostentatious target marker on the ceiling, and a target marker behind the turret.

  • The player is expected to ride a railgun shot to the ceiling marker, release, fire at the second marker, ride the second rail behind the sentry, kill the enemy bot, then kill the sentry.

  • Upon first completion, player is given a pat on the back and a freebie item – ideally a small cosmetic, rather than a consumable or card upgrade.

Other tutorials might include:

  • Teleporting to a mid-air Recall marker, then immediately using Cinders during the drop, then walk mode to circle behind and kill an enemy player that locks Tesla fire onto both audio and visual cues.
  • Using wall-ride rocket jumps to clear a bottomless pit between two platforms in a long hallway.
  • Staying the air for over 7 seconds using a combination of Air Jump, Phase Reverse, Recall, and Detonader jumps.

As in Capcom fighting games, these tutorials would showcase combos that teach you the boundaries of the game’s design. You would rarely use the techniques explicitly against a human player, but rather as as a springboard to develop your own strategies, as well a means of understanding how an opponent is getting the upper hand.

In my opinion, that’s what I’d like to see to help players get over the learning curve, to combat that stale, “dry” feeling of revolving-door Ranked matchmaking, where it feels like very little forward progress is being made. That, and a free bottle of lubricant with each DLC purchase.

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It’s definitely more playable in this iteration with everybody being level 8, and you can now see potential that was not apparent before - but it still feels like two different games. And it does feel like it will get dry very quickly.

Some comments and suggestions :

  1. Let me choose card decks during the countdown. If you are dumping me into a random map, let me have the 10 countdown seconds to choose a deck once I know what map I am fighting on. It would also be nice to have a chance to change decks during a match after we are down a couple of frags or have a way to earn a deck change. It would add significantly to your interest in building decks and using all them as appropriate - helping to marry these 2 separate games into 1 game with complimentary halves. As it is, there is no subtlety to your load out due to opponent or terrain because you are forced to choose ahead of the match. It would definitely help “add moisture” to the game if you could change strategy during the match instead of being locked in 40 seconds before the match even begins.

  2. It is missing a critical component of card collection games and spectator or team games - you are all alone. You can have spectators - who exist as a number of people watching at the top of the screen. You and your opponent are in the match together, but it still feels like computer AI. I know the emoji communication feature was a stab at adding some camaraderie. It is cumbersome on the PC. How about letting us customize the emojis? You could store the custom emojis in our account and pre-send them to the opponent’s client during the loading process. As for spectators, how about small copies of spectator profile pics instead of just a number? Give the spectators access to emojis. This is probably something a player should be able to turn off, but it could add a layer of community and fun to the game. If you really want to add some coms to the game, a robust team audio chat that included spectators would be pretty kewl. You would need to allow players to turn spectator chat off or allow them to mute or ban specific spectators. If might even be interesting to have a spectator chat window that scrolled during the match. The combatants probably wouldn’t look at it during the match, but maybe you could look at the log after the match.

  3. The combat portion of current version feels somewhat like a classic arcade game. With the exception of some variation in opponent behavior, the action falls into repetitive patterns. It is channeled into patterns by terrain and weapons/abilities before the match starts. Something is going to have to change during matches to keep dryness at bay. Whether it is deck changes, map changes, weather - something needs to break cycles. Trapdoors on timers? Labyrinth shifts? Random obstacle bots? Cockroaches?

  4. Display empty slots for the opponent’s cards on the right side of the screen and automatically fill them as he uses them so we don’t have to hit the TAB button and obstruct our view. (Not a moisture additive, but would make life easier.)

  5. Mercy Rule Alternative - several people brought up the idea of a mercy rule. Instead of a “game over” mercy rule, how about an option selection for the person getting stomped when the mercy counter is triggered? Give the Stomp-ee choice of changing decks or changing maps. If he chooses deck change, the Stomp-er should also get the opportunity to change decks. During deck selection before the map, both opponents should have the opportunity to select yes or no to playing with a mercy rule. Both would have to say yes for it to be in effect. Anybody else got an idea of what you could do besides just quitting?

  6. Maps are much too tight for available weapons and inherent lag in action. The current maps make SMGs and knives the weapons you would expect to be effective, but there aren’t any! The rocket launcher is a decent weapon, but not particularly fun in tight quarters. Half of the time you are killing the opponent without seeing him because of splash damage around corners. You know where he is, but you only know he died because of a pop-up message. (How about a FallOut VATS style slo-mo death animation? I hate VATS and I don’t use it, but the animations are kewl.) Then when you are evading, the maps are so tight that your only effective evasion is to bunny hop (and BUNNY HOPPING BLOWS - more on this later). You can’t run fast enough to evade laterally - even if there was room to do so. Due to the inherent lag, the lightning fast reflexes of an FPS veteran are canceled in tight spaces when you add an extra 0.1 to 0.2 seconds to everything that happens. If you find yourself face to face with an opponent, you only have time for one shotgun blast or one ability activation. If your aim is off or he isn’t where he was when you pulled the trigger (maybe due to lag and not necessarily his or your skill), you are done. If you are going to give me a rifle - give me a map where are rifle is an effective weapon - or give me a different weapon. (Sniper map anybody???)

  7. A possible way to test the affect of map sizing on weapon and skill effectiveness might be to play with scaling. Assuming Y is vertical, Change the X and Z scale of the map in increments, while leaving distance between levels alone ( or scale player jump distances up to compensate for increased XYZ distances). Change the size of the map and leave the size of the player alone - or vice versa. Then play with the weapons and abilities you have. I think it would give an intuitive feel for where the balance lives between map dimensions and online combat lag. Give us 3 or 4 sizes of the same map and let us tell you which one plays better.

  8. Bunny Hopping Just Plain Sucks - and I probably won’t play the finished game if that is the only way to win. Bunny Hopping = Dryness. As I noted above, bunny hopping is a consequence of tight maps and net lag. I don’t find it fun. I was surprised that a double jump actually takes a card slot, but I think I sorta see the reasoning now. Being able to double jump constantly would further increase the bunny hopping tedium. If your idiot opponent couldn’t jump up and down forever, he would have to start using cover and play more strategically. It would remove a huge part of the “luck” factor induced by system timing. The “sneak” on shift is also a PITA if you use it to sprint on every other game. I would like to have a limited sprint time (no card required) and some kind of limitation on regular jumping.

That’s all my insufficiently coffee-soaked brain will generate right now. Gotta go figure out what is murdering my chickens. (Yes, I have chickens. It happens here in Missouri.)