The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly of Borderlands Red Text Guns

What do you guys/girls think about doing what I did in the above post for the guns so the OP doesn’t get to long?

Also anything you want added to it I can add. If most are happy with it I can start doing that for all the guns.

It’s good - nice, clear analysis. The link from the OP makes it easy to find and share, too. Please keep going!

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Thanks I took screen shots of all the maliwan ones so I can put those up pretty quick, I do have to run some errands here soon but I’ll work on it today and see how many of these I can get done.

Love it - weapon descriptions over the years in both text and video have described in great detail why guns aren’t worth using, which pushes readers to only play with a small subset of the best few weapons in the game. Showing how to get the most of this gear and work around these deficiencies encourages players to try these new weapons. If it still doesn’t work for them, it’s not because they didn’t make an informed decision.

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For me, this couldn’t have happened at a better time; I’ve owned the game basically since Day 1 but it’s only recently that I’ve begun exploring the uppper reaches of char development, etc and wading thru gun stats was getting a bit overwhelming. Your breakdown(s) have already helped me decide what to try and what to skip.

Assault rifles, particularly since they have a sometimes-questionable worthwhile’ness factor.

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Volcano


Stats compard to the Snider it was based off of

  • Damage: -20.9631%
  • Accuracy: unchanged
  • Fire Rate: unchanged
  • Reload Speed: unchanged
  • DOT Damage/Second: unchanged
  • Chance to Ignite: -5.4%
  • 100% sniper type A crit Bonus

Red Text Effects other than Stats

Splash damage was increased from 50% to 80% as well as changed from splash damage that did not receive grenade damage to the type that DOES receive grenade damage.

The One Shot Math


Volcano
Gun Damage
640469 x 2 x (1 + 100%) x 1.75 = 4,483,283
Splash Damage
(640469 x 80%) x 1.75 = 896,656
Total Damage
5,379,939

Snider
Gun Damage
744731 x 2 x (1 + 100%) x 1.75 = 5,213,117
Splash Damage
(744731 x 80%) x 1.75 = 651,639
Total Damage
5,864,756

The Volcano does just over 9% less damage on a crit and I know it does more on a body shot but if you are going for body shots with a sniper you have larger issues. You can see while the splash damage is more the difference on the pellet is just too much.

Now my fix for the gun was to leave the base damage alone, here would be the results.

Volcano with Hindsight Fix
Gun Damage
744731 x 2 x (1 + 100%) x 1.75 = 5,213,117
Splash Damage
(744731 x 80%) x 1.75 = 1,042,623
Total Damage
6,255,740

Now you are doing 6.25% more damage, still a bit lack luster but an improvement over one of the best purple guns in the game. This is not at all game breaking.

How to get the most out of it

  • Like most guns, Bee and Bone. The bee will make the difference in the base damage less important and the amp going into the splash will make it out perform a snider. I don’t know if its worth farming one to do this but it does help.
  • Axton is about the only character that really can make this shine. Steady and Battlefronts grenade buffs can make the splash damage enough to make up for the lost base damage.
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Chere-Amie


Stats compared to the Jericho it was based off of

  • Damage: unchanged
  • Accuracy: unchanged
  • Fire Rate: unchanged
  • Reload Speed: unchanged
  • DOT Damage/Second: unchanged
  • Chance for DOT: unchanged
  • 100% sniper type A crit bonus and a bonus 20%

Red Text Effect other than Stats

The splash was removed and replaced with a healing transfusion orb as well as adding 1.9% lifesteal

One Shot Math




I have the the extra image here before the shot to show the life steal%

Chere-Amie
Gun Damage
539154 x 2 x (1 + 120%) = 2,372,277

Lifesteal
1.9%

Jericho
Gun Damage
539154 x 2 x (1 + 100%) = 2,156,616
Splash Damage
539154 x 50% = 269,557
Total Damage
2,426,193

The damage even with the crit boost is just over 2% less damage and a blue and the ~2% healing isn’t that impressive. The orb is neat but slow and also does not heal for a ton.

Chere-Amie with Hindsight fix
Gun Damage
539154 x 2 x (1 + 150%) = 2,695,770
Splash Damage
539154 x 50% = 269,557
Total Damage
2,965,327

Now we are looking at a solid increase of 18% and you get more from your lifesteal. If you also increase the lifesteal to 12% we are looking at 355,839 health on a kill instead of 47,445. Now its a solid sniper and a solid healing gun, like most other moxxi guns.

How to get the most out of it

  • Zer0 and CA is about the only way to make this do enough damage and heal pretty well. Since with CA if you switch to a non sniper you loose your stacks your only way to heal with him is mostly transfusion grenades or this gun. I should say he does have a few skills to heal but they are on the weak side of healing.
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Derch, I dont know exactly the math behind it but the DoT the Storm provides is based on the gun damage and is buffed by gun damage buffs, the Bee and etc. This should increase the damage a lot.
Maybe it is because the orbs are 10% the gun damage each and the scale up with it, I dont know.
With Gaige and Electrical Burn the damage increase is huge.

Yeah its kinda confusing, there are 2 dots potential with it, the orbs are 10% splash damage on first tick but telsa down like dots, and then you have the regular dot that can come from the bullet. I’ll try to explain it better in the post.

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Pimpernel


Stats compared to the Snider it was based off of

  • Damage: unchanged
  • Accuracy: unchanged
  • Fire Rate: unchanged
  • Reload Speed: unchanged
  • DOT Damage/Second: unchanged
  • Chance for DOT: unchanged
  • 100% sniper type A crit bonus

Red Text Effect other than Stats

5 unlisted pellets the split off at a center point in a pentagon pattern that is strait above the impact point of the original pellet. These pellets keep traveling even if they hit on impact, so they can each hit twice.

One Shot Math


Pimpernel
Original Pellet Gun Damage
539,154
Original Pellet Splash Damage
539154 x 50% = 269,577
Unlisted Pellets Gun Damage
539154 x 2 x (1 + 100%) x 5 = 10,783,080
Unlisted Pellet Splash Damage
(539154 x 50%) x 5 = 1,347,885
Total Damage
12,939,696

Before I move onto the Snider I’m going to break that total into parts.
Listed or Original Pellet
539154 + 269577 = 808,731 you can see this as the 808K in the image
Unlisted Pellets
10783080 + 1347885 = 12,130,965 you can see this as the 12130K in the image
Unlisted pellets second hit, only splash
(539154 x 50%) x 2 = 539,154 you can see this as the 539K in the image. I didn’t count this above since most times enemies are not strapped to a wall and those pellets would hit other enemies.

Snider
Gun Damage
539154 x 2 x (1 + 100%) = 2,156,616
Splash Damage
539154 x 50% = 269577
Total Damage
2,426,193

The Pimpernel is doing 433% more damage than the snider on a sweet spot and 2200% more than the damage listed on the card, and they didn’t make a single draw back to the gun.

This is what red text guns should be, massive damage potential if you can learn how to use it.

How to get the most out of it

  • In general since it has unlisted pellets the Bee really takes it over the top and of course a Bone, but this is so powerful that often you are better off without a Bee and use a shield for survival like the Antag or Blockade since the Pimp doesn’t need more damage.
  • The Pimp has extra synergy with the B0re like skills (B0re, chain reaction, Nth Degree) in that when those skills proc they create a new pellet so the unlisted pellet split again. This makes it great with Zer0, Maya, and Gaige.
  • Sal can use off hand mechanics with a Rocket Launcher and a Pimp so the unlisted pellets all get the Damage of the Rocket Launcher instead of what is on the card. Other characters can kind of do this with weapon swapping but many consider this a glitch and not fair play. (lets not debate that here please)
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Vladof is in, and I’ll start the next section in a few days. I want to catch up with the detail posts and port over a thread from the old boards.

Derch, you da… you da best. Great topic.

I’m assuming you’re gonna hit all the weapon types. Really looking forward to your write up on SMGs.

Yeah I’m in between AR’s or Shotguns next.

ARs. Most shotguns are generally useful, but the same can’t be said about assault rifles. :dukesad:

And gearbox made a lot of really interesting AR’s, kitten, hail, bekah, orge, sawbar, madhouse, etc…

Yes, but they’re almost universally derided. I need to get another Kitten for Maya…I was thinking about a good AR for her and forgot about that one.

Patriot


Stats compared to the Droog it was based off of

  • Damage: +28%
  • Accuracy: -11.5
  • Fire Rate: -1.2
  • Reload Speed: +1.1
  • Magazine Size: -15
  • DOT Damage/Second: unchanged
  • Chance for DOT: unchanged
  • 100% sniper type A crit bonus

Red Text Effects other than stats

Not listed on the card is recoil that is larger and has a slower recovery time

The One Shot Math


Patriot
Gun Damage
956302 x 2 x (1 + 100%) = 3,825,208

Droog
Gun Damage
744731 x 2 x (1 + 100%) = 2,978,924

So it still does 28% more damage on crit just like on a body shot but between the reduced fire rate, mag, reload, and accuracy the DPS is lower. I know on snipers I’m not overly concerned about DPS but the accuracy and recoil also lower the range of effectiveness as well. It is fully viable but it isn’t really better than the Droog and nowhere near as good as the lyuda.

Now with my fix for the gun of an additional 20% damage and 25% crit as well as get rid lowered accuracy and recoil.

Patriot with Hindsight fix
Gun Damage
1102201 x 2 x (1 + 125%) = 4,959,908

Now we would be looking at a 66.5% damage increase, still not lyuda range but really good and you don’t have to manage a split.

How to get the most out of it

  • A Vladof allegiance relic can help with the recoil on all characters
  • Axton has Steady to help with the recoil

In the end there isn’t really any way to make this better than a Droog or Lyuda, anything you can do to this it would make those guns even better and both are easier to get.

Lyuda/White Death


Stats compared to the Droog it was based off of

Damage: +8.5%
Accuracy: +1.6
Fire Rate: unchanged
Reload Speed: unchanged
Magazine Size: unchanged
DOT Damage/Second: unchanged
Chance for DOT: unchanged
125% sniper type A crit bonus

Red Text Effects other than stats

There are 2 unlisted pellets the split off after a short distance and the spread slightly gets wider.

The One Shot Math


Lyuda/White Death
Gun Damage
808202 x 2 x (1 + 125%) x 3 = 10,910,727

Droog
Gun Damage
744731 x 2 x (1 + 100%) = 2,978,924

The Lyuda does 266% more damage than the Droog if you hit all pellets, yes 266%. Once again that is what a red text gun should be, powerful if you can master it.

There is nothing to fix for this gun because its as close as perfect as a gun can get.

How to get the most out of it

  • Unlisted pellets are always great with a Bee and even better matching elements with a Bone.
  • Be careful with holding down the trigger while mobbing, often one shot is all you need and if you get in the habit of holding down when you don’t need to your ammo will be gone very fast.
  • Bullet split has synergy with B0re, Chain Reaction, and Nth Degree because when those skills proc the split will happen again.
  • Zer0 with CA is really the absolute best way to get the most out of this gun, and this gun also is the best way to use CA. By hitting 3 crits a shot with the fire rate of the Lyuda you can stack incredibility fast and since the gun is powerful on its own it quickly becomes potentially the highest damage potential in the game.
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Really informative and highly interesting- any chance it gets stickied?

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Seconding the sticky request.

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