The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly of Borderlands Red Text Guns

Derch, you da… you da best. Great topic.

I’m assuming you’re gonna hit all the weapon types. Really looking forward to your write up on SMGs.

Yeah I’m in between AR’s or Shotguns next.

ARs. Most shotguns are generally useful, but the same can’t be said about assault rifles. :dukesad:

And gearbox made a lot of really interesting AR’s, kitten, hail, bekah, orge, sawbar, madhouse, etc…

Yes, but they’re almost universally derided. I need to get another Kitten for Maya…I was thinking about a good AR for her and forgot about that one.

Patriot


Stats compared to the Droog it was based off of

  • Damage: +28%
  • Accuracy: -11.5
  • Fire Rate: -1.2
  • Reload Speed: +1.1
  • Magazine Size: -15
  • DOT Damage/Second: unchanged
  • Chance for DOT: unchanged
  • 100% sniper type A crit bonus

Red Text Effects other than stats

Not listed on the card is recoil that is larger and has a slower recovery time

The One Shot Math


Patriot
Gun Damage
956302 x 2 x (1 + 100%) = 3,825,208

Droog
Gun Damage
744731 x 2 x (1 + 100%) = 2,978,924

So it still does 28% more damage on crit just like on a body shot but between the reduced fire rate, mag, reload, and accuracy the DPS is lower. I know on snipers I’m not overly concerned about DPS but the accuracy and recoil also lower the range of effectiveness as well. It is fully viable but it isn’t really better than the Droog and nowhere near as good as the lyuda.

Now with my fix for the gun of an additional 20% damage and 25% crit as well as get rid lowered accuracy and recoil.

Patriot with Hindsight fix
Gun Damage
1102201 x 2 x (1 + 125%) = 4,959,908

Now we would be looking at a 66.5% damage increase, still not lyuda range but really good and you don’t have to manage a split.

How to get the most out of it

  • A Vladof allegiance relic can help with the recoil on all characters
  • Axton has Steady to help with the recoil

In the end there isn’t really any way to make this better than a Droog or Lyuda, anything you can do to this it would make those guns even better and both are easier to get.

Lyuda/White Death


Stats compared to the Droog it was based off of

Damage: +8.5%
Accuracy: +1.6
Fire Rate: unchanged
Reload Speed: unchanged
Magazine Size: unchanged
DOT Damage/Second: unchanged
Chance for DOT: unchanged
125% sniper type A crit bonus

Red Text Effects other than stats

There are 2 unlisted pellets the split off after a short distance and the spread slightly gets wider.

The One Shot Math


Lyuda/White Death
Gun Damage
808202 x 2 x (1 + 125%) x 3 = 10,910,727

Droog
Gun Damage
744731 x 2 x (1 + 100%) = 2,978,924

The Lyuda does 266% more damage than the Droog if you hit all pellets, yes 266%. Once again that is what a red text gun should be, powerful if you can master it.

There is nothing to fix for this gun because its as close as perfect as a gun can get.

How to get the most out of it

  • Unlisted pellets are always great with a Bee and even better matching elements with a Bone.
  • Be careful with holding down the trigger while mobbing, often one shot is all you need and if you get in the habit of holding down when you don’t need to your ammo will be gone very fast.
  • Bullet split has synergy with B0re, Chain Reaction, and Nth Degree because when those skills proc the split will happen again.
  • Zer0 with CA is really the absolute best way to get the most out of this gun, and this gun also is the best way to use CA. By hitting 3 crits a shot with the fire rate of the Lyuda you can stack incredibility fast and since the gun is powerful on its own it quickly becomes potentially the highest damage potential in the game.
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Really informative and highly interesting- any chance it gets stickied?

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Seconding the sticky request.

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Thirding. :wink:

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Has anybody requested that this be stickied? That’s the fastest way for it to be. :wink:

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Added to Lootology

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Thank you!

Thanks Kitty, I’ll be starting the AR section soon with Jakobs because the Bekah, mmmmmmm sweet sweet bekah.

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I’m going to start on the AR’s tomorrow with Jakobs but for now I did a seperate thread for the Bekah

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Added Jakobs and I’ll start working on the individual posts either later tonight or tomorrow

Hammerbuster


Stats compared to the Scarab it was based off of

  • Damage: +72.4%
  • Accuracy: unchanged
  • Fire Rate: unchanged
  • Reload Speed: unchanged
  • Magazine Size: unchanged

Red Text Effects other than stats

There are none, just the damage increase.

The One Shot Math



for these tests I had on minds eye to show the type B crit damage, the 25% is minds eye

Hammerbuster
759118 x 2 x (1 + 25%) x (1 + 15%) = 2,182,464

Scarab
444300 x 2 x (1 + 25%) x (1 + 15%) = 1,277,362

So just like the damage on card you are doing ~70% more damage than the Scarab

How to get the most out of it

  • Add critical hit damage to it, all Jakobs AR’s love crit bonuses with their type B.
  • Hit Crits, once again Jakobs AR’s do massive damage on crits.
  • Stay away from Jakobs stocks, they make the recoil on these guns terrible.

Stomper


Stats compared to the Rifle it was based off of

  • Damage: -11.9%
  • Accuracy: -1.4
  • Fire Rate: -.8
  • Reload Speed: unchanged
  • Magazine Size: unchanged

Red Text Effects other than stats

+50 type A critical hit bonus

The One Shot Math



for these tests I had on minds eye to show the type B crit damage, the 25% is minds eye

Stomper
431606 x 2 x (1 + 50% + 25%) x (1 x 15%) = 1,737,214

Rifle
489999 x 2 x (1 + 25%) x (1 + 15%) = 1,408,747

The Stomper does more on a crit but only by 23% which isn’t terrible but isn’t great considering its a blue and not a purple.

So with my fix adding massive critical hit damage, I would go 250% instead of 50%

Stomper with Hindsight fix
431606 x 2 x (1 + 250% + 25%) x (1 x 15%) = 3,722,601

That would make it do 164% more than the Rifle its based on and make it a gun worth using and farming. Better than the hammerbuster on crit but not nearly as good off crit. Great but different.

How to get the most out of it

  • Add critical hit damage to it, all Jakobs AR’s love crit bonuses with their type B.
  • Hit Crits, once again Jakobs AR’s do massive damage on crits.
  • Stay away from Jakobs stocks, they make the recoil on these guns terrible.

I know same as the hammerbuster, but really they work the same…

I have a busy day and I don’t think I’ll have time to post much in here or update until later tonight but here is the Vladof video for now and I’ll update the post later today or early tomorrow.

Spoiler alert Vladof AR’s are amazing and I love them

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To be honest, I dont think that the Stomper need any fix. It is an easy farm rifle and the middle ground between a blue and the purple/orange tiers. It is also solid in the end game. There is no reason to push it to the level of the Hammer Buster in my opinion.

Also, I like how they remade the Hammer Buster for TPS. I wish that the original had penetration too.
And the fix for the Hammerlock’s rifle should be the same as all the others weapons: Make up the fire rate loss with damage. A really huge boost to damage and critical so it becomes worth to not pull the trigger as fast as you can.