The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly of Borderlands Red Text Guns

Thirding. :wink:

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Has anybody requested that this be stickied? That’s the fastest way for it to be. :wink:

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Added to Lootology

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Thank you!

Thanks Kitty, I’ll be starting the AR section soon with Jakobs because the Bekah, mmmmmmm sweet sweet bekah.

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I’m going to start on the AR’s tomorrow with Jakobs but for now I did a seperate thread for the Bekah

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Added Jakobs and I’ll start working on the individual posts either later tonight or tomorrow

Hammerbuster


Stats compared to the Scarab it was based off of

  • Damage: +72.4%
  • Accuracy: unchanged
  • Fire Rate: unchanged
  • Reload Speed: unchanged
  • Magazine Size: unchanged

Red Text Effects other than stats

There are none, just the damage increase.

The One Shot Math



for these tests I had on minds eye to show the type B crit damage, the 25% is minds eye

Hammerbuster
759118 x 2 x (1 + 25%) x (1 + 15%) = 2,182,464

Scarab
444300 x 2 x (1 + 25%) x (1 + 15%) = 1,277,362

So just like the damage on card you are doing ~70% more damage than the Scarab

How to get the most out of it

  • Add critical hit damage to it, all Jakobs AR’s love crit bonuses with their type B.
  • Hit Crits, once again Jakobs AR’s do massive damage on crits.
  • Stay away from Jakobs stocks, they make the recoil on these guns terrible.

Stomper


Stats compared to the Rifle it was based off of

  • Damage: -11.9%
  • Accuracy: -1.4
  • Fire Rate: -.8
  • Reload Speed: unchanged
  • Magazine Size: unchanged

Red Text Effects other than stats

+50 type A critical hit bonus

The One Shot Math



for these tests I had on minds eye to show the type B crit damage, the 25% is minds eye

Stomper
431606 x 2 x (1 + 50% + 25%) x (1 x 15%) = 1,737,214

Rifle
489999 x 2 x (1 + 25%) x (1 + 15%) = 1,408,747

The Stomper does more on a crit but only by 23% which isn’t terrible but isn’t great considering its a blue and not a purple.

So with my fix adding massive critical hit damage, I would go 250% instead of 50%

Stomper with Hindsight fix
431606 x 2 x (1 + 250% + 25%) x (1 x 15%) = 3,722,601

That would make it do 164% more than the Rifle its based on and make it a gun worth using and farming. Better than the hammerbuster on crit but not nearly as good off crit. Great but different.

How to get the most out of it

  • Add critical hit damage to it, all Jakobs AR’s love crit bonuses with their type B.
  • Hit Crits, once again Jakobs AR’s do massive damage on crits.
  • Stay away from Jakobs stocks, they make the recoil on these guns terrible.

I know same as the hammerbuster, but really they work the same…

I have a busy day and I don’t think I’ll have time to post much in here or update until later tonight but here is the Vladof video for now and I’ll update the post later today or early tomorrow.

Spoiler alert Vladof AR’s are amazing and I love them

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To be honest, I dont think that the Stomper need any fix. It is an easy farm rifle and the middle ground between a blue and the purple/orange tiers. It is also solid in the end game. There is no reason to push it to the level of the Hammer Buster in my opinion.

Also, I like how they remade the Hammer Buster for TPS. I wish that the original had penetration too.
And the fix for the Hammerlock’s rifle should be the same as all the others weapons: Make up the fire rate loss with damage. A really huge boost to damage and critical so it becomes worth to not pull the trigger as fast as you can.

Great vid. Just one pet peeve.

Your statement at the end. I know this has been addressed many times before, but it is a point that always seems to get lost over the internet. When people say “X class of weapons suck”, they are talking about the class as a whole, not as an elite group of red text weapons. Vladof ARs may be good in some contexts (too ammo hosey for me), but that doesn’t change Dahl and Bandit being pretty trashy, and the class as a whole having not-so-great stats, like the ludicrious amonts of recoil bandits, vladofs, and Dahls when not ADS have for comparitively little damage.

Those 5 guns are great no doubt. But there are at least 5 or 6 other types of vladof ARs, along with 4 other manufacturers, 2 of which (Dahl and Bandit) are pretty difficult to use optimally (squeezing out whatever damage they may be entirely capable of) and still not the great even when you do.

Unless there is some guide for non-red text ARs that deals with how use them effectively, I don’t really think this one group can discount an observation that is generally correct. I mean, you saw the crit damage those non red text guns were doing.

Bandit has at less the sawbar which is really good, Dahl have some good ones as well. This whole topic is about red text but I would be happy to explore regular purple ARs separately, there are many strong ones. Also Torgue has some really solid ones as well.

At some point, I’d be interested in your thoughts on Torgue ARs, having become a recent fan while learning to play a Mechromancer.

Oh yeah - had some highly effective purple Dahl, Vladof, and Toruge ARs over the years. My general rule of thumb is to never toss anything until I’ve tried it out.

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That is some of the beat borderlands advice one can give

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I’m really enjoying the series. Looking forward for the pistols.

Ill be able to wrap up the Jakobs and Vladof parts today, and I started with Dahl next.

Dammed Cowboy


Stats compared to the Rifle it was based off of

Damage: +68.67%
Accuracy: +2.0
Fire Rate: -13.3
Reload Speed: +0.1
Magazine Size: unchanged

Red Text Effects other than stats

32.5% type B critical hit instead of 15%.

Starting off you have a lot more damage but the question remains, is the damage enough to make up for the slow fire rate.

The One Shot Math



for these tests I had on minds eye to show the type B crit damage, the 25% is minds eye

Dammed Cowboy
710880 x 2 x (1 + 25%) + (1 + 32.5%) = 2,354,790

Rifle
421450 x 2 x (1 + 25%) + (1 + 15%) = 1,211,668

Now on crit it does 94% more damage but with the lower fire rate it won’t do more DPS. While the damage is respectable on the Dammed Cowboy its not quite enough for the fire rate IMO but not far off either.

My hindsight fix of a bit more damage and more crit, I would go with 100% more damage and add 50% type A crit.

Dammed Cowboy with Hindsight fix
842900 x 2 x (1 + 50% + 25%) x (1 + 32.5%) = 3,894,198

Now it would do 221% more damage than a blue Rifle yet that damage isn’t unreasonable. I think with this you would see much more use of this gun that should give it one shot one kill potential.

How to get the most out of it

  • Any fire rate buffs will help this greatly 2 fire rate can get decent quickly.
  • Critical hit buffs go a long ways with a 32.5% type B crit bonus. TTAoDK coms go nice here because of that.

Stinkpot


Stats compared to the Cannon it was based off of

  • Damage: +11.82%
  • Accuracy: unchanged
  • Fire Rate: unchanged
  • Reload Speed: unchanged
  • Magazine Size: unchanged

Red Text Effects other than stats

The Stinkpot is always corrosive, where Cannons can only be explosive so on armored enemies it can out perform a Cannon but outside of that its weaker.

The One Shot Math


Stinkpot
Flesh enemy as in image
880137 x 60% = 528,082
Armor enemy
880137 x 175%= 1,540,239

Cannon
Flesh enemy as in image
787,045
Armor Enemy
787,045

You can see it does quite a bit less on flesh but quite a bit more on Armor, but my issue is its not enough. If you compare this to the other guns I’ve covered even on Armor enemies its not great damage.

My hindsight fix wasn’t really doing anything to the stats but make the AOE bigger so you hit multiple enemies with each shot easier and have it shoot 2 grenades without an increase to the ammo cost. With that youl kwould be doing 3 million to a target and thats solid damage.

How to get the most out of it

  • Since it shoots grenades both Axton and Krieg can get a lot out of it with their buffs
  • Sometimes shooting the ground and bouncing the grenade into your target it better than having it possibly bouncing off.
  • Since its corrosive it should go without say but only use it on armored enemies with a yellow health bar or bosses that you know are weak to corrosion
  • Corrosive Bone goes well with it for obvious reasons.