The hex and all overtuned homing weapons still need a nerf

Borderlands 3 Borderlands 3 General Discussion
#1

So on the list if things that are completely ruining the core gameplay, everything that does super high damage and is homing on top of it really needs to be addressed.

The hex is not the only issue with this combination but its the most prevalent. (Theres other even stronger options for that but pssst)

If 1 guy in your group has the a good Hex mod in M3 Proving Grounds. The game is just over. You can go afk and come back after that 1 person has Hex spammed the entire Instance to death with 0 effort.

There are other grenade mods, especially legendaries, that desperately need buffs. Im thinking of the fastball here for example but also the red queen and most of the other legendary grenade mods tbh.

Homing and high damage shouldnt be a combination that is this spammable.

Cheers
A grenade spammer.

Edit: Thanks to Gaidax for an accurate demonstration of using the Hex at Mayhem 3 against the most difficult faction in the game:

PS: My other thread was closed because LITERALLY 1 guy kept trolling the thread and kept baiting people - if there is a way to exclude certain individuals from posting please do tell.

8 Likes
#2

i dont think the grenade itself is the problem tbh. i think its Moze’s kit…

9 Likes
#3

Guess I’ll state my view again, to get ahead of the inevitable “but being OP is the point of building a character”:
Being OP is fine, but the way you get to be OP also matters. Having one good grenade mod and falling asleep as you brainlessly spam it should not be a top-tier strategy.
Even the most broken builds in BL2 needed at least some aiming. (Well, shamfleeting is debatable)

Fair point, she has pretty crazy grenade regen. Zane’s is good too, btw. And generally speaking I think the game just drops more grenade ammo than previous titles. Unless you’re in circle of slaughter or one of the harder proving grounds, you can throw craploads of grenades even if you aren’t Moze.

3 Likes
#4

thats true. but still: its not only the hex gren. its also the quasar, stormfront and the variants of firestorm (i feel like 50% of all grenades work for those builds; better or worse)

either you fix all the grenades or you change the mechanics. i cant think of another solution rn.

another point is: moze doesnt even need the grenades in ultra lategame; she just oneshots everything. so i really do not think they are the problem, even tho theyre prolly TOO good.

1 Like
#5

You forgot about the best and most skill-less, counter intuitive, infamous BL2 build; Infinibee Zer0!

Sorry, just wanted to chuckle at myself. I’m leaving the thread now.

3 Likes
#6

Oh my god, shut up about this grenade. If people get this grenade ruined because of Moze builds spamming it I will be so pissed.

I have fun throwing it occassionally with my Amara because it’s just fun to use and see do its thing, specially in combination with Amara’s skills. It doesn’t need to be ruined. Change the way it works slightly with Moze by changing something with her skills. Idk.

but if this grenade gets ruined for everyone because of people playing with Moze…I will lose my ■■■■.

11 Likes
#7

The problem with the hex really is that it removes the core gameplay of being a shooter. There is no reason ever to not press grenade if there are enemies somewhere remotely close. There is no thought process, no decision making, no nothing.

It makes the game into look at radar , spot red dot, press button and thats just really stupid.
The gameconcept is called “looter shooter” and there is no shooter aspect when homing weapons without conditions (compared to atlas weapons where you at least have to apply trackers) are the optimal way to play.

The visual effects on the hex are not helping either. They are just too much.

On the matter of stormfront quasar and firestorm…

I honestly think those elements are fairly weak this time around. Although fire is still much better than shock. They really pooped on shock this time around.
Radiation, Kinetic and to some degree freeze is what you want most of the time.

Theres also a fairly signifcant delay on both the storm front and the quasar which doesnt help them.

A lot of grenades need buffs but as long as the Hex exists there is really no reason to run anything else in the first place.

1 Like
#8

Anyway its your own decision how you play the game. And you dont need them at all to get competitive times (sub 5 minutes) on fervor or any other “endgame content”.

They’re strong, yes. Maybe even too strong. But they’re nowhere near the pipe bomb (not gamebreaking!)

So i dont really get whats the issue rn? Is it that others use it to be strong?

EDIT: on the element part: i dont agree at all. All elements are pretty useful and good.

4 Likes
#9

The only problem with the pipe bomb was that it would 1 shot super high health targets. I dont think a grenade that can 1 shot normal mobs and has normal travel time and requires a direct hit is op.

Meanwhile things like the cake grenade work exactly like that and hit for 6K at level 50 which is just sad.

The reality is this game suggests multiplayer and even has online matchmaking. Not playing matchmaking just because people abuse an item that effectively removes all “gameplay” from the game can not be the solution.

I wouldnt mind if it was doing low damage and wasnt viable to kill things on M3 in a reasonable amount of time but unfortunately that is exactly what it does. And some other homing items (you know which ones) do the same thing. If people want to spam this thing on THVM normal without mayhem and kill and entire room of enemies without even looking at the screen its fine by me.

But not in the highest possible difficulty content. Difficulty is there to provide a challenge. Not just provide higher loot chances.

Maybe make a Mayhem 4 that just flat out removes the Homing tag entirely from items. That would work.

2 Likes
#10

I dont know why you keep comming up with the homing aspect…? its not NEEDED at all. People would just use other grenades that dont use homing. Moze could nearly throw ANY grenade and it would work, even tho it would be less braindead.

So even if you REMOVE hex, quasar and stormfront, you can use the epicenter, firestorm or whatnot. Moze (and maybe other characters, idk, i only have a good knowledge bout moze) can still utilize them TOO good and will still be able to throw near to infinite grenades.

another point: if those people are just throwing grenades, they will lack damage. Believe it or not, hex spamming isnt a really solid DPS, even with good mods. It works fine, but its nowhere near “normal” gun power.

i really get your points, but i dont think your ideas will solve the problem. and in addition a lot of ppl will be pissed.

5 Likes
#11

Wow I basically disagree with everything you said, except the shock element getting the low end of the stick here.

I love the visual effects of the grenade, that’s one of the reasons I like using it, but also because it’s fun to use and effective

I do think it’s a little abusive to have a build that sits back and throws just this grenade all day, but honestly that’s just because I’m afraid it will draw attention to the wrong thing(the Hex) and get it ruined for everyone.

I’m basically all for letting people play how they want to play other than worrying it will draw attention to it for nerfs.

I can’t stand nerfs, and I tend to like these types of games because they don’t do it as often. Gearbox needs to stick with that and not ruin everything.

4 Likes
#12

The grenade itself is not that much of an issue.

The issue is the way Hex interacts with Vampyr and Means of Destruction for Moze, which results in infinite sustain and effective immortality alongside the Bloodletter mod. It’s not the only grenade to do this (albeit the most failsafe braindead one), so that’s why the change needs to go to the said 2 skills instead.

IMO they should make Means of Destruction proc grenade at 100% chance, but put it on 10 seconds CD for the proc and probably add 1 seconds CD to Vampyr effect as well. It would still leave build pretty powerful, but at least not absolute limitless godmode.

1 Like
#13

That is all i want - less braindead gameplay.

Like i said i think grenades in general are quite fine.

High damage homing is not.

Moze in general has MORE POWERFUL builds than grenade spam. They are simply not used because even though they are stronger when used correctly they are LESS BRAINDEAD.

If there really ends up being a problem with infinite sustain after you can no longer spam a super high split (vampyr is per hit) homing and high damage item then it CAN be addressed later.

I really think the homing + high damage combination is the problem here. Multi hit and Vampyr are secondary. If someone wants to be unkillable i dont reallyyyy care - i do care if he can solo all enemies in the highest possible difficulty without me actually being able to play the game at all.

1 Like
#14

Definitely not even close.

There are few grenades on Hex level of broken with Moze, but many are pretty ok, as in you could still toss a lot of them to some extent, but at least you would sort of need to know what you are doing and won’t be healing yourself for hundreds % of your max HP every second.

For example something like Tina’s Hopper, which is a kickass grenade, can be spammed a lot for sure, but you can blow yourself up if not careful. it can’t do much to flying enemies and its healing is a mere tiny fraction of what hex does.

1 Like
#15

the way this sounds for me:

-This way of playing the game is not fun to me, i dont wanna do it

also

-This way of playing is not fun to me, i dont want others to play it.

People will learn that the grenade build isnt the “go to” for moze, atleast in terms of damage and the problem will prolly settle itself…

5 Likes
#16

i unbinded my Grenade Key, so i cant use them anymore as moze. just to test. still fervor in sub 5…

they are not needed. people are freezed in their mind it seems and cant even think for themselves anymore. Just google Best build for [character] and use that.

2 Likes
#17

Look dude the game is about shooting things.
I cant shoot things if Hex kills things 3 miles away off screen.

At least let people play the goddamn game. Using the Hex is basically griefing :wink:

nevermind the awful particles everywhere.

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#18

Was a nice discussion since now, but its really getting silly rn. See ya and good luck :slight_smile:

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#19

Have a nice day :slight_smile:

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#20

Here’s my M3 Slaughter Shaft run with hex grenades on Moze with Loaded Dice on top of that. Anything less than hex and you can’t do it precisely because of Vampyr not proccing enough.

19 minutes, about 50 legendaries. You can’t die even with Loaded Dice and you blow everything up. I don’t even need to aim.

2 Likes