The hex and all overtuned homing weapons still need a nerf

so this whole thing again, the thread yesterday was not enough? i swear, these people that come on here yelling about wanting a challenge and this and that needs to be nerfed because it is too good have some sort of a problem with people having fun.

if you need a challenge, use all green gear?
use all white gear?
do something other than use the item you are complaining about if you hate it so much, it really isnt more difficult than that.

and the dude challenging people to do a run in the same amount of time, then he is also playing playing offline?!?!

your going to complain and whine about an OP item and your playing offline so you are in super easy mode with training wheels with 500x loot…

wow, go find something else to do and let others enjoy a video game already…

for some reason my post was flagged as inappropriate? hope this edit fixes that.

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Krieg in BL2 had one build that revolved around using the fastball to 1 shot enemies and instantly top off health. Of course this was only possible due to having infinite grenades.

This was fairly viable in UVHM and OP levels without being broken by itself. If you missed 1 or 2 grenades you just died. Because missing was possible. You couldnt just yolo throw ■■■■ in the air.

You could argue that the capstone that made people aoe explode off overkill damage was too good, but just spamming that particular grenade was definitely not. BLTPS had a infinite grenades for Jack, again, not super broken.

Neither off these games had super abuseable homing items tho.

Its the combination of those 2 things but infinite nades is pretty much a BL standard.

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I don want nerfs. FL4K was nerfed because people complained. we need buffs to other things. then we can have minor nerfs. we want other characters to be played more, not just popular characters played less.

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Fine, don’t nerf it at all.

Have fun with future mobbing content in DLC (like raids or future proving grounds/circles of slaughter) now being balanced around Hex Moze. It’s a strong and popular build, therefore future content would HAVE to be balanced around its existence. Gearbox CAN’T just ignore it.

Not playing Hex Moze? Well good luck to you, you’re going to need it trying to fight a mob of enemies designed to handle an immortal tank girl throwing infinite multiplying homing tesla grenades.

The much-maligned OP levels in BL2 came to exist precisely because you just can’t stop people from using OP gear. Personally I’d rather they tone down blatantly over-tuned options to avoid a repeat of OP levels, but I know, people hate nerfs.

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Is this all because you can’t find a group to play with that doesn’t spam the grenade? Find better matches then. Always… Nerf nerf nerf. Wait until the modding gets more of a foothold. Already there on PC. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean others can’t have a little fun, especially solo.

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A reminder that the previous thread on this topic was locked because folks were spending more time attacking one another than actually discussing issues on merits.

I see this one is not turning out any better.

Please read the FORUM RULES

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Moze’s skills might need adjusting, at least maybe a cooldown instead of just nerf’d outright (you canonly get like 5 grenades from Means of Destruction every few minutes or something). And maybe they should adjust the grenade drop rate during bosses, but the grenade itself doesnt really need that much changing. Sure, its good, but thats only because most other grenades suck by comparison. The point of grenades is to have AoE explosive that helps deal w/ mobs. They SHOULD feel useful and powerful. If I spam 10 grenades at a group of enemes, only the badasses should be alive at the end.

Nerfing the Hex because Moze can throw it as much as she wants isnt going to fix things. Next they’d have to nerf the Firestorm because thats what everyone would probably go to next, the Pipe Bomb again cuz its still useful for damage, maybe the Stormfront, etc. The basic Hex isnt even that great unless you get the Recurring version (I’ve got a Cloning one that splits into two and its mediocre at best)

People will ALWAYS use meta stuff. Constantly making stuff weaker is just going to drive people away. All the people that farmed for the Hex, traded for it, or use it on other characters will just get screwed over. The Youtubers will just move on to the next “OP” thing.

And yes, you SHOULD have OP stuff in a loot game. It should feel powerful and kill stuff, thats kinda the whole reason most people play. Some people pick Moze’s grenade spam build because they actually have FUN watching stuff die. The people that dont want to feel OP and be challenged every step of the way just dont have to use that gear.

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Has OP tried simply unequipping the grenade mod?

Back in Borderlands 2 one of the strongest build with any character (but maya in particular) was the bee-hawk build. You simply pointed in an enemies general direction and then watched them melt. Being a fan of the game, I felt this build was way too powerful. However, instead of asking gearbox to nerf the sandhawk or the bee shield, I used different shields and different weapons. This solved the problem for me and still allowed me to switch to that build if I felt like melting everything.

Just take off the grenade mod and play the game how you want to play it but don’t force everyone into having to play your way. Let the people who want to mess around with it do as they please.

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Moze’s grenade skills need tweaking, not nerfing. Adding cooldowns or percentage limits on health gain, crit chance, and grenade regen would make it so they couldn’t be spammed unto infinity and require no other gameplay input. The skills themselves are fine, with Zane they work under the idea that he can’t use grenades normally though people might cheese that as an exploit a bit.

As for the homing complaint, easy. Either cut down the maximum homing distance period, or change it so the homing effect starts strong but tapers off as it goes further distances. That way you can’t hit enemies a million miles away with perfect accuracy, but you don’t have to nerf any specific grenade mods themselves.

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I disliked the Moira/Symmetra haters too, it’s pretty funny to imagine what they’d think about the hex.
You have to admit that it’s on an entirely different level than a large hitbox/aim-assist.

Yes and on the matter of the bee shield in BL2 - that thing was nerfed HEAVILY multiple times. Even though constant balancing wasnt as common as it is today.

So lets just get it over with early. Nerf the Hex now^

I like redorigins idea to adjust how the homing modifier functions - possibly only in a fairly small radius. Im not sure how difficulty that would be to implement but that would certainly fix the issues that i have with not only the hex but all overtuned homing weapons in general.

Perhaps I didn’t explain my main point well enough. If it is truly ruining the game play experience for you, why don’t you just unequip the grenade mod? There are plenty of viable grenade mods that you can use besides this one. Just because it is very powerful doesn’t mean you have to use it

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Viable. the word you’re looking for is viable.
Can we please stop throwing around the word OP and nerf? especially when it comes to the hex grenades.
the game was meant to be played on mayhem 3 not meant for it to be downright impossible. it’s a good feeling when you have a powerful build or find a bada** gun. Why are we whining to nerf everything?
Sure some guns / grenades are better than others, but most of them aren’t.
Especially when it comes to grenades. The hex is one of them few viable options for grenades right now. The ENTIRE game grenades were practically useless and did little to no dps. the hex isn’t that far off. it’s a fun grenade to watch it do its thing, but it does not classify as OP at all. It is one of the few viable nades.
it does not melt bosses, takes about 8 to kill a standard enemy, and is best for melting shields (shock hex) so you don’t have to swap weapons.
Fun nades like firestorm, quasar, hex, etc. are just that, FUN! Sure they’re powerful, but if gearbox listens to everyone whining about the few grenades that are actually viable it’s gonna ruin everything for everyone.
stop it!!
:):slight_smile:

p.s. that video is pointless without a mention of the modifiers available. probably +50 grenade and +70 elemental lolol.

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@ anyone saying “just don’t use the grenade”

  1. NOT using something overpowered doesn’t make it not overpowered. The thing will still be overpowered and broken.

  2. Generally speaking, that’s not how gamers play games. They gravitate towards the most effective tactics, and if something is overpowered it will become the main way to play the game. Having a handful of people ignore it for a challenge doesn’t change the fact that majority of the playerbase will be abusing it. This argument has been used countless times in other games, yet there will still be ass loads of people abusing overpowered/broken stuff.

  3. If something is overpowered, then all future content has to be built with this in mind. This is the exact reason OP levels in BL2 was a mess, because of stuff like Beehawk, Sal anything, Grog, etc. It’s why a lot of the DLC bosses have stupid AF mechanics, or do crazy amounts of damage in a single hit, or shoot out constant novas, or are flat out invincible sometimes. Because if they didn’t do this the game would be a cakewalk for anyone using the OP stuff. This is called power creep, and it’s a very very bad thing to have happen to your game. It gets to a point where the only way to play the game is to play with the broken stuff, thus it actually DENIES you the option to play how you want and actually pigeon-holes you into playing a specific way to be effective. They got away with it in BL2 because they just made the game so ridiculous at OP8 that having overpowered/broken stuff in the game became acceptable.

Truth is, games are better when gameplay isn’t broken with overpowered junk.

That said, the only part of this I think is broken is how quickly/easily Moze can regen nades. It’s not the nade itself, I can spam nades as Amara in a pinch and melt mobs of enemies. But the fact I can only throw 10 nades mean it’s only going to help me in 1 or 2 fights, so I save it for when I’m in the most trouble. If they turn down her nade regen, maybe also tone down the homing effect slightly on long range targets, then it would be fine.

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  1. These kind of arguments are always presented in a world where we have to pretend people will always remain static when it comes to in game choices. So what if people are attracted to these “OP” builds? Like do you actually think 3 years from now no one would have tried something other than bloodletter hex moze? BL will always require a lot of farming and that’s why a lot of people are using these load outs in the first place: let me get these items so I can get my 500+ graveward or X boss kills in as fast as possible to get all the legendaries I want THEN I can play the game.

All you have to do is look at Bl2 best gear posts to see that people will eventually diversify why they play. Look at Maya for example, why isnt her best gear page not just DPUH , sandhawks in every element, legendary cat mods and antagonists/blockade/ evolution? This is because people will test items find things that are fun to play. Pimpernels, bekahs, twisters, slowhands, maggies , and even regular blue or purple jakobs quads were all items I loved to use on my maya, but how can that be the case if I used “OP” stuff first.

  1. This OP levels being a restrictive mess thing kind of needs to die, its so annoying hearing it regurgitated over and over. There were plenty of weapons viable even at OP10. Seriously go farm Marcus’s loot train like 5 times and you can pretty much mob anywhere at OP10 (plasma casters, quads, topneaa’s etc). The only raid boss that was really created around balancing around these "OP " tactics was voracidous and people still found creative ways around it. Speaking of voracidous, he is tangentially an example of possible ways DLC bosses can be balanced. IIRC he was fairly unique in resisting explosive even after his shield is taken out. If some items would invalidate the raid boss experience there are plenty of creative tricks to stop them from being used.
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As it stands. If you don’t like it because you feel it makes the game too easy and want a challenge. Then don’t use it. Done. What other people do in their game session that doesn’t contain you is none of your concern in regards to their play style and what gear they choose to use.

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This thread…again…

Threads like these are gonna make it

Borderlands 3 NERF EDITION

Dont use it if you dont like it. Problem solved.

OP, your coming off as the vegan calling the cops because your neighbor had a bbq, let players play the way they want.

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The sad thing is, Gearbox appears to be listening very, very closely to all the YouTubers, and players/streamers calling for nerfs, and then implementing knee jerk “nerfs” to the game…There is no other explanation I can find in why the very first Hotfix, which should have addressed REAL issues that are still plaguing this game, dealt with so called “balancing” the game and started nerfing things instead.

If you check the dates of my comments in these forums, you will see that I predicted that the nerfs will keep coming, they won’t stop…so far I’ve been proven right. Next to be nerfed, I fear, will be the Hex Mirv grenade and the Whispering Ice grenade, also Moze is going to be hit hard as well.

I honestly can’t be bothered to play Borderlands 3 any more, the constant nerfing of our gear/weapons is ruining players experience and fun with this game.

I’m waiting for genuine fixes to the horrific menu lag, Bank storage wiping out their inventory, Bank being so tiny, etc, but if the next Patch/Hotfix contains another round of nerfs, I’m out, and I will shelve this game. It literally has no longetivity, all it is become is “we will find whatever makes the player OP and we will nerf it for you!”. It’s that constant nagging question in the back of my mind, “what are they going to nerf next” every time I play, which is destroying this game IMO

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Allow me to address your points in order:

  1. You are correct in saying that NOT using something does not stop it from being “overpowered”. That being said, however, This grenade mod isn’t one-shotting bosses and it isn’t completely warping the game around it to where you HAVE to use it to succeed.

  2. You are also correct in that many players do seek to only play the game with the most optimal gear and builds and that’s what they enjoy doing. This isn’t a competitive game in the slightest, and its all about playing the way you want to, and having fun how you want. If this were competitive I could see your point, but as it stands, I would rather let people have fun their way than try to limit their fun in any way.

  3. If this argument were true, then overpower levels in BL2 would have been built with this in mind and the game would have been incredibly more difficult than it was. BL2 endgame was slightly more challenging but was still a lot of fun and was increasingly fun because of many of the broken mechanics that existed, such as beehawk, sal, anarchy gaige, bloodsplosion etc. Your argument of BL2 “pigeon-holing” you into a certain playstyle or build and if you actually think that is the case, you clearly never tried having fun in that game without using the “overpowered” things mentioned above because it is absolutely enjoyable without broken set ups.

Truth is, Borderlands is better when the player gets to choose how they play the game themselves. When people feel alienated or attacked for playing the game a certain way, they are less likely to continue playing the game.

Finally, your last paragraph just tells me that in actuality, it is not the grenade that you think is broken, but the specific character that uses it. You literally just destroyed your own argument by saying that “the only part I think is broken is how quickly/easily Moze can regen nades”. Why are you placing the blame on a grenade mod when you clearly think the issue isn’t even the mod itself? You’re just shifting the blame now for no reason other than to make a stupid change happen that would affect a large portion of the community for no reason at all.

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Before crying nerf hex please follow the following rules :

  1. if player is moze , grenade is not the issue.

  2. Check map modifiers , if they are favorable for the grenade , the grenade is not the issue. any weapon with favorable Mayhem 3 modifiers melts mobs.Hell with a lot of luck you could get modifiers so that any pistol can one shot normal mobs and kill bad asses with a couple of shots.

  3. remember this is a game without leader boards that people play just for the fact that you can. Stop caring so much about what others do , and care more about what you do. Here you have options to not play with such people , or to not use these items.

Also if you would be actually using these , the nades do not melt bosses , that was the porcelain one that did that , and it is fixed.

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