Surely special attacks play an event you could track. Keep track of how many times each bomber has used its special attack, and disable the special attack for those that have reached their limit.
I would love to see fuel back, at least as an option for a custom match 
âŚbut iâm cool with formations getting fixedâŚiâm cool.
Still, one thing I love about ANY game is the ways it allows for a match to be different. Used to play DOW Soulstorm with my friends using âassasinationâ as a game ending setting. CHANGED everything in a really cool way. I think fuel systems would make the game better, IMHO.
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I know a lot of the discussion has been around bombers, but for capital ships ammo and fuel would mean that long battles would leave a ship less effective unless there were resupply tenders in the area, allowing for strategies of attacking supply and wearing down ships. I could even imagine a pirate raider focus that was designed to wear down the enemy ship reduce its capability to fight/escape and then capture it.
you could also deplete missile arsenal ships and PDS systems with different combinations of initial strike group waves. (similar to Russian cold war tactics against Aegis cruisers.)
for me fuel and ammo would start to become mixed, essentially treating it as âreactor stuffâ and movement and shooting would deplete it.
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Having some kind of general supply system in a hypothetical future HW game could add a lot to the strategy.
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Supply could add strategy, yes. But I think on the whole, it would be detrimental to the homeworld game and universe. I of course, do not think it is impossible for it to enhance gameplay. It would come down to implementation, as we all know. Now, admittedly, Iâm not entirely sure what effect on gameplay the community would like supply to have, but Iâm guessing it would come down to one of the following.
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A large scale strategic economy system where a large portion of RUs come directly from farming the map. But, trade routs and/or production routs can be established to increase gains. (Sins of a Solar Empire).
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A large scale strategic economy system where a large portion of RUs come directly from Development and farming the map. Trade routs can be established between somewhat independent nodes for an increase in and a more stable production as well as specialization. (Civ V cities)
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(the one I think being got at the most) Small-medium scale tactical supply ships (trucks) manually guided to distribute âgeneral supplyâ for the use of refuel, repair, & rearm. (War Game)
My biggest quarrel with any of these systems is atmosphere of the game. Homeworld is what I would consider a Real Time Strategy on a tactical scale. In fact, if say it wasnât necessary to control RU points for income (as opposed to steady income), I would consider Homeworld to be a Real Time Tactical. (if youâll allow me to draw a distinction between generas; think World in Conflict). Trade in Homeworld is established as being on a galactic scale, and while the Homeworld story also exists on a galactic scale, itâs gameplay exists on an arena scale. That aside, I always got the feeling that a Homeworld economy would be very self sufficient. A carrier with resourcers and resources to mine could manufacture independently any ship smaller than it is. Motherships/Shipyards are very large carriers that are capable of producing capital ships. It would be interesting if resources were actually stored in production ships. If a carrier was producing far faster than resourcers could deliver resources to it, then perhaps it would require a transfer from a larger resource operation via a trade ship that could be intercepted. Finally, a Wargame approach to supply. My opinion of said system comes down to something like âwe have a Wargame already, itâs called Wargame. Go play Wargame.â Homeworld sits far closer to fantasy than it does to science fiction IMO. Nothing about the technology is really explained. Given the insanely fast build speed of production ships, and repair beams and generic unspecified raw material that is RUs, I am more than happy to believe that all munitions and spare parts are synthesized on ship, and fuel is so efficient and/or plentiful that it need not be modeled as a game mechanic. I wonât address how it would change gameplay because i think more than any other possible mechanic, this one functions of very specific and small mechanics that I couldnât speculate on, and could in fact be added quite successfully if done right. Admittedly, I have very specific views on how Homeworld should be played/develouped. Supply and/or trade, just donât fit my vision of the game.
One last option that I would like to throw out there. To give the illusion of trade routes, redesign RU injections. Have the injections arrive on actual ships that can be intercepted. Perhaps they hyperspace in at the edge of the map and move to dock with the mothership via conventional drives. depending on the size of injections, destroying a shipment could be a devastating blow.
Just thoughts
Cheers
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One of the issues I have with your PoV is that, well, it only applies to Homeworld. Like the almost totality of the people here, I do love the HW universe and lore, no question about it, but letâs not lie to ourselves: Homeworld, as a game, is also defined now by the modding, and the flexibility of the engine, the capability of modders, both new and experimented, both solo and teams, to do wonders with it, represents one of its main appeals. The release and the super-patch are both a testimony to it.
What I mean by this is that while a hypothetical Homeworld 2.5 or Homeworld 3 might not need fuel/ammunition management as a core mechanic, having the option to enabled it in the engine would multiply the possibilities on a vast scale. For modders, it allows a complete redefinition of the role of strike craft, it allows mission design that take this into account Ă la Gardens of Kadesh. It is a tool, and a very powerful one for the creative mind.
A fleet action involves usually frigates and above fighting one another, with the rock/paper/scissors mechanics leading to each targeting their proper target, maybe doing some maneuvering while strike crafts are more harassment. This is good and spectacular, but, well, itâs the Battle of Jutland with missiles, rail-guns and ion cannons. With fuel and ammunition, you can jump right away to World War II and its naval battles. Maybe you would get frigates with devastating torpedoes and limited ammunition like the destroyers of the time? Then you do the Taffy 3 action near Samar, where you launch a handful of frigate on a suicidal run against much bigger units to try and get their one shot to count, making the enemy ultimately retreat in a magnificent show of courage and bravery? Or maybe you can do the carrier warfare, as Iâm doing. Bombers being actually very threatening to capital ships, but only if they are used correctly. Doing some sneaky maneuvers with your escort fighters to keep the enemy fighter screen busy for even ten seconds allowing your strike force to get through and deliver its payload is nothing short of glorious, believe me. But you have to play the cat and mouse game too, finding the enemy task force before it finds you, anticipating their actions, surprising them or ignoring all of that and charging with your cruiser to point-blank range with an escort of fighters to keep the torpedo away.
What fuel and ammunition allows to do is to make some of the battles much more intense, much more exhilirating as you can increase the effectiveness of the individual weapon without breaking the balance. Yes, a flight of bombers can nuke a destroyer in one salvo, but they only get that one salvo and they need their carrier to not be expensive coffins. The tactical options, the design options⌠they are there and for modders, they would be a definite boon.
Get it in the engine, as a hidden option, and you would have your vision of HW while other people can experiment.
Just to be REALLY clear - we donât generally do âhiddenâ gameplay features - virtually no developer does - and we certainly donât take something that would affect balance across the board and put a toggle on it for users. Then, when testing, youâd have double the work to do. You either think a feature is worth-while, use it, and stand by it, or you donât.
We (and the vast, vast majority of people weâve dealt with) donât think Fuel is a good design choice.
Is there some chance elements required to do fuel/ammo may be exposed in the future? Maybe? Never say never?
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I agree
Same. The only reason I would still want fuel at this point would be for the purposes of staying true to HW1 mechanics in the campaign, certainly not necessary for multiplayer or for HW2.
People need to understand that adding code for a specific function or gameplay takes time and money. If the developpers know from the start that they wonât activate it for everybody in the final product (for whatever reason, design, complexity, etcâŚ), they wonât be able to make it a selling point, and so just wonât do it, thatâs as simple as that.
As much as âsome guysâ love to work during the week-end and their personnal time (and money, and life), they also need to eat, and for that, need money. Iâm already thankfull for the work theyâve done on a niche product as HW, because I never would have hoped to see it rises from the ashes after Relic/Sierra/THQ disappeared into nothingness.
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I mostly agree which is why I was thinking itâd be a very streamlined system.
For example thereâd be no âstorageâ, ships are either in supply or out of supply. Having a mothership, carrier or supply frigates means your ships function normally and gradually repair themselves. No supply denies repair (no maintentance) or creates slow attrition and reduces speed and fire rate (but not down to crippling levels). To make maps more interesting and add strategic points there could be spots where you can improvise supply by being near asteroid fields and nebulae that can be harvested for low grade materials that would allow you to maintain the ships.
It could affect other things like refuel speed (if fuel were a thing) or ftl/hyperspace charge rate.
So no supply lines, trade routes and such, no 4x elements basically. It shouldnât feel cumbersome or require extensive management.
Iâd also combine that with sturdier capital ships to have more back and forth and less total wipes.
Just in general I like the idea of having non-combat ships with lots of utility. So using the Support Frigate as an example, it would provide the supply/repair âauraâ, it could harvest RUs (cost inneffective to build it just for that purpose, more a matter of opportunity when the fleet is near a RU spot, could steal RUs when raiding enemy resource operations), it would quickly repair fighters, it could take over from salvage corvettes but instead of hijacking ships it would actually salvage by rebuilding wrecks of destroyed ships at a cost (only cruiser level and above would leave wrecks so things donât go overboard) or harvest them for RUs, it could scan interesting phenomena for a research bonus, lay mines, launch probes, activate neutral structures, etc. all depending on upgrades/research or not.
Just so itâs clear Iâm talking hypotheticals, not asking to have this in HWR, Iâm not that daft.
shrugs Oh, well, it just means Iâll have to try and work in these features manually.
This. Fuel could be interesting, but when the original HW first came out I found myself having to spend so much time using tactical pause in order to get basic strategies to pan out. The biggest issue for me was determining how to get around the unit cap while still deploying support units to the front. Carriers were usually easy targets, which was exacerbated by the systematic approach that the AI had used to prioritize its targets. The unit caps also prevented me from ever being able to assign a fully adequate defense to each Carrier, so I couldnât deploy them to the front. Along with this, each Support Frigate takes the place of another - more vitally important - attack frigate in the fleet; so, I was forced to primarily use Repair Corvettes for refueling, which have few docking pads and are super easy targets. So, yeah, when HW2 came out, I loved that fuel was no longer a constraint on my fleet, even if the lore had to do some handwaving to explain that away.
Well let me ask. What exactly is it that you want out of Homeworld MP? Because, if itâs a WWII naval battle you want, wouldnât it be better suited to DoK
Looking at this from a purely logical perspective it simply doesnât make sense to have ships run out of fuel within minutes of combat, that would be a super inefficient design for a ship and highly impractical to use. Homeworld is not a 4x game where you manage a vast empire with long trade routes and ships travel across entire solar systems between combat but it is focussed on local scale, short term battles of a few minutes at most. So fuel would not make sense since ships donât run out of fuel in such a short time, especially with futuristic tech and in space where it wouldnât require constant propulsion to travel.
Not to disagree with the main point youâre trying to make, but ships in Homeworld donât function as if they are traveling through space. They function more like they are traveling through some sort of fluid. They have max speeds, and require continuous propulsion to maintain that speed.
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I know, but that is more of an aesthetic choice I would say since it simply looks silly to watch ships move without any sort of propulsion being visible 
Same reason pretty much every sci-fi show/movie does it I guess.
In my case I was looking at it from the perspective of having ships that have been in combat for long duration become less capable over time so that large vessels could be worn down by waves of attacks. My idea was on having attacking, special abilities and hyper jumps being energy intensive, but putzing around at sublight being relatively free and maybe acceleration was impacted rather than max speed once âfuel was outâ
[quote=âBitVenom, post:67, topic:1465718â]
Is there some chance elements required to do fuel/ammo may be exposed in the future? Maybe? Never say never?[/quote]
And thatâs all we can ask and hope for. A slim chance that something might get added at some point into the future. Thanks for that 
Itâs kinda obvious that you and Brian were Hw2 brats. 
Us elders liked our fuel. I admit though that many folks couldnât understand the concept behind it properly or knew how to act upon it which might have caused massive frustration back in the days. So leaving it out the core game is most certainly the right call.
Anyway that aside it does make sense what you say. No dev should ever release hidden parts in their engine unless itâs supposed to be some sort of accessible Easter egg. How ever didnât you offer support in regards of Shields to satisfy the Star Trek fan modders? How is that different from fuel?
Donât get me wrong Iâm not complaining here on the contrary Iâm loving ya for it. Reminds me back on my military times when they taught us not to take side to anyone and not to make promises to civis you canât hold or even gifting them goods as then others come wanting the same gifts and special attention.
I still believe every dev in each company could learn a lot from you guys & your concept on the current title. You risk exposure to the community and try to satisfy everyone (impossible task) and that alone deserves a lot of respect in every aspect.
Either way with the same good old topic and discussion at hand. One that the community had so often since release. I believe everything enhancing game play mechanics is certainly worth an investigation. Since this would be purely for modders their pleasure and wont affect the core game it should be a brilliant addition to modding possibilities. Let them worry about popping up balancing issues. Naturally such features, shields, fuel would have to be well documented in modding sdkâs so that they are not hidden features.
But lets get back to topic shall we? After all this topic us for the upcoming patch and not to discuss fan opinions and wishes.
That sounds rather interessting to be honest and it makes sense that ships who have been in combat for long periods of time are worn down and need some repairs to function at peak efficiency again, same goes for hyperspace jumping being an energy drain on the ships so for a short period after jumping their fire rate and/or mobility could be affected as the reactor has to build up sufficient power again or something along those lines. I just donât like the idea of fuel since the battles are too short for that to be a factor but your ideas sound interesting