The inevitable level cap increase - its problems/solutions

Borderlands 3 Borderlands 3 SPOILERS
#1

I feel the direction we are heading in terms of end game content is much better than in borderlands 2, and far better than pre-sequel. So I am excited to see where it goes from here!

I understand why Gearbox will increase it, and why people enjoy it. However, I have to admit that I am not a fan of level cap increases in Borderlands games.

My main beefs:

  • It deters me from playing now.
    I feel its a waste of my time farming those god rolls (even on classmods/relics) when the items will most likely be made redundant.
    Other than leveling each character, and clearing each boss once on M3, I won’t want to keep playing until all the levels are out.
    Even recently in BL2 they did it to us. All those hours gone, with nothing to show for it. :frowning:

  • I enjoy specific character builds.
    BL1 and Pre-sequel had it worst. By the end of all the level increases, the skill tree looked pretty similar across all builds. I enjoy the specific aspects of a character’s capabilities, and the abundance of skill points makes for a flavourless character you’ve created.
    Eg, I like having to choose between a sniper build or a pet build on Fl4k. To spec in both and having skill points left over is boring.

  • Terror items and their builds will disappear.
    Temporary areas and missions are awesome. Temporary items are not. Once the level cap goes up, the terror items and builds will effective be deleted from the game. No one likes having content removed.

Solutions:

  • I stfu and gtfo.

  • Include repeatable missions and the reward is to select an item to level up to the player’s current level. I imagine something similar to the current bloody harvest event mission. After a long(er) and hard(er) objective, you get to continue using an item you worked so hard for previously.
    This would also fix the terror item issue.

  • Add a 4th skill tree. This would mean the player can decide between maxing 2 trees or dabble in 4 different trees.
    I guess an alternative would be to extend the current 3 skill trees.

  • have an option to cap a playthrough at a certain level. I for one would really enjoy having a lvl 50 Amara i can play. Farming booses for level 50 items, play through ALL content, and not worrying about an accidental level up.
    Once i have had my fun, exit game and boot up my level 61 Amara. Or my level 72…
    Im imagining a toggle option with a warning “you have selected to increase level cap to 61 on this playthrough. Once you confirm, you will not be able to go back.”
    This would fix the build and item issues i have. Plus add much more content for people like me. (if there are any)

This post ended up being longer than I thought…

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#2

You make a lot of cogent points, but the majority of players most likely tend to enjoy grinding the new and improved items that come out with most expansions along with their level caps. I would also argue that a good many "meta"god gears in the present will not hold up against newer items in the future.

I think they really ought to expand Skill Trees since they seem determined to not release any new Vault Hunters in any reasonably foreseeable future DLC’s. That’s an outstanding idea and one i hope the community manages to pass along to Gearbox.

#3

i am 90 percent sure i read that the plan was to expand on skill trees instead of adding new characters which is something i am excited about for sure.

this made me laugh so much haha. dont do it though :kissing_heart:

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#4

I agree but at the same time i think it makes the game more fun.
call me stupid but i really enjoy to farm stuff in videogames

Don’t look at it like a “waste of time”, look at it like “the ‘next-generation’ of that shield came out. i have to get it.”

i agree with this but i think that making a specific build like that may need to actually add at least 5/6 skills per skill tree.
Maybe the new skills GBX told us they will add for the existing characters will help with that?

Agree and i would add that the Terror needs some sort of buff because for now it’s just a cool gimmick and not actually “usefoul”

i would LOVE this tbh.
i think it’s time to have a new skill tree in bl.

#5

I would just prefer another capstone and skills once the level increase is done, it will give more encouragement to specialize in one tree and the new skills would also need new weapons to synergize with.

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#6

As far as I’m concerned, having all or most of the skills would be a boon. I inevitably want to do all of the things, and having to respec or make a duplicate character to do so annoys me.

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#7

I guess this is where I differ. I am still grinding at level 50 and loving the game. When the increase happens I’ll grind even more to reacquire the higher level gear. It is part of why I love this game series. I look forward to whatever is planned. I just wish the cap didn’t stop at level whatever level is planned. I wish the would let you max out so it’s possible to buy every skill at maximum. Would love to see each VH completely at max power.

#8

Hmm, I think at that point we wouldn’t be playing an RPG anymore.

Ultimately this isn’t a problem I’d have with Borderlands, its a problem I would have with any RPG that adopts this model.

If a character in BL3 has all skills, then the RPG element is lost and we would then be playing an adventure game, set on easy mode. You would lose a large portion of the character build, strategy and overall thought process.

Having all skills would defeat the purpose. You may as well get a mod then.

#9

I agree. I definitely agree with some points OP is making but I don’t find it bad that I farmed for this gun today and eventually a stronger version will exist. I didn’t view the op levels as all that work down the drain. I viewed it as sweet now I can find a stronger hornet!

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#10

Based on nearly three decades of tabletop and video game RPG experience, I gotta say the “RPG element” doesn’t depend on not being able to get all the skills.

#11

However, you would have to agree that it certainly removes something from player choice and overall strategy, right? At least, in BL3 specifically.

We have skills and items. Then you have player ability.
If all skills are achieved, we only have items and player ability.
Im just suggesting i want to keep the choices in my game. Adding more skill points without adding more skills just takes away from the end game experience.

Again for emphasis, end game experience. Leveling a new characters will always have that new character feel.

And so we are all clear, i too will farm the new levelled items when they come out. I just, want to be efficient, i guess. Right now ill spend the time leveling the 4 characters, and maybe a 5th or 6th, instead of farming a whole bunch.

#12

By my estimation, what it would add to the gameplay experience outweighs the dubious benefits of choices forced by limitations. But, as they say, YMMV.

And while I would be ecstatic to have enough skill points to get all of the skills (from ALL of the classes combined, MWAHAHAHA!), I’d also be happy to just have enough to get to two capstones. Even if they added skill trees to all of the VHs.

#13

It’s a farming game. It’s undeniable that each new level cap adds replay value and new build options.

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#14

With how the trees currently are structured adding more levels will give players 2 powerful capstones. Most have a dead capstone that is relatively weak compared to the others. Increasing the level will only make less variety, and cause newer players to grind more to catch up. This happened in BL2 as well, where most everyone ran around with the same builds. If they kept the level cap the same, added 1 new tree per character and added new coms to flow (and fix the broken/weak ones) we would see a lot more different build variety.

#15

I obviously can’t speak for anyone else here, but I for one am really looking forward to getting 22 more skill points (I think 70 skill points is the speculated total when level cap increases are done). For someone who plays Zane, the Operative is going to be an entirely different animal with 22 more skill points. You could say the same about every class, but I think in Zane’s case, he’s going to catapult from being the weakest class in the game to one of the strongest.

So far that reason alone, along with all the DLC that will accompany level cap increases, I’m looking forward to it.

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