The "Kitchen Sink" Build....Yes....I want it ALL!--UPDATED!

Updated 2-12-17 After finishing OP8

I was never really able to come up with a good “Kitchen Sink” build for my Commando but darned if I don’t think I have a very decent one for Zer0.

At least a gun Zer0 that does not melee a lot.

The build is decent for Long Range Sniping and excellent at Pistol/shotgun Stalking up close and personal and can “get by” with an occasional Melee.

It relies on 4 coms that can be interchanged WITHOUT CHANGING THE BUILD! Good for those places where there are no spec stations available.

Legendary Hunter - For General All Around Play and best cooldown
Legendary Sniper - When you absolutely want the BEST sniping ability at long range
Chaotic Neutral Rogue = Best for Pistol/Shotgun
Blue Shadow Stalker +6 FollowThrough, +5 Rising Shot. For those times when you want to “mix it up” and run around like a wild man with pistols like machine guns.

Sheriff’s Badge
Bone Relic (Multiplte types for element matching the best but if only one…then shock)
Explosive Damage Relic


Grog…Bladed Preferred…Bladed Slag Rubi is fine as well

Corrosive Sandhawk
Corrosive Bitch/Actualizer/Tattler
Any other element Sandhawk


Any Conference Call or Butcher, for Shock and Corrosive

Corrosive Norfleet or Corrosive Badaboom or Corrosive Topneea

Magic Missile X4 most used (but this one is kind of a personal choice)
Fastballs of your choice
Slag Transfusion
Chain Lightning
Optional: Storm Front, Meteor Shower

Slag Pimp
Any Lyuda
After that really about anything
Fremengton Edge
Invader (with a Bee is nice for not super long range…kind of mid range sniping.

Playstyle is:
General Gameplay: Legendary Hunter: BoA of your choice
Sniping Gameplay: Legendary Sniper: BoA of your choice
Pistol Stalker/Chaotic Neutral Rogue for mid range to in your face Gameplay: Blue Shadow Stalker +6 FollowThrough, +5 Rising Shot and Sheriff’s Badge. Blue Chaotic Neutral Rogue with +6 Velocity. +5 TwoFang

All right…that’s it…have at it and tell me where I’m wrong. Opinions welcome!

Ahhhh a flaw already…LOL

Velocity and a Pimp…not good

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I’d probably throw the point from counter strike to fast hands. Fast hands is always useful but if you are only aiming to occasionally execute with killing blow then the chance for counter strike to be active is rather small. Not the biggest of deals but I’d pick the constant buffs over the leg hunter buff here.

Could also consider Unforeseen for the switch. I’ve honestly never tried it at 4/5 so I don’t know how big the difference to 5/5 is but at least in my mind if you are going for it you might as well maximize it’s damage. I’d like to hear how it’s working for you at 4.

I personally use my grenade a lot to heal with Moxxi weapons. Are you able to keep you health above 50 % with MM in grenade slot with it’s relatively slow connection speed? Zer0 has good swap speed so if you have dedicated keys for each weapon the slag pimp and your Moxxi weapon should have you covered. Is it working for you? You can of course shoot DPUH and switch to Moxxi before the bullets hit which is a good bonus.

I wouldn’t carry a slag Lyuda if you have a slag Pimpernel already. The Pimpernel is near guaranteed slag while the Lyuda not so much. You can have something else in that slot, IMO.

And… Hawkeye? Hows that treating you? Critical bonuses benefit from gun damage more than stacking multiple crit bonuses on top of low gun damage. I’d imagine a good non-red text Jacobs rifle would net you more on Zer0 than Hawkeye does if you are looking for a straight shooting, high damage crit shot sniper. I’m not sure about this though, I never really tried the Hawkeye. I just remember reading about it and crunching the numbers a bit and it made sense.

Good info!! Thanks! Love the idea on Counter Strike.

Unforseen at 4/5 in UVHM…is just OK. At 5/5…it’s better, but not by much. In UVHM, the only time I have seen it super effective is with a Spy com at 10/5 or 11/5. It does tend to strip any shield and delays an enemy a bit even at 4/5 but I have no data to support this…just my own observations.

Will a Slag Lyuda still slag well with Velocity at 6/5???

A Magic Missile is actually good for my slower reactions and switch speeds. And slags decently at long ranges. Gives me time to swap to the Grog before it hits. But I don’t have a Chain Lightning yet so I may change my mind on this once I get one.

I was starting to perfect the shoot DPUH and switch to Grog method on Axton who also has great swap speed. I plan on using that method a lot in the Pistol Stalker mode. (I do always grimace at that a bit as folks think that’s perfectly OK to do…a game mechanic exploited…Same with a SandHawk/ladyfist Quick Switch…yet the same folks turn around and sniff their noses at my Commando using a Flakker/Ahab quick switch LOL).

I found the Hawkeye, after pretty extensive testing on Axton to be an EXCELLENT sniper rifle buuuuut, and this is a BIG but, you better be GOOD at critting because it penalizes you badly for body shots. Plus it’s not a bolt action, it’s a semi auto Jalobs sniper which can shoot pretty fast with good FR buffs. It’s no Lyuda but with all of Zer0’s Crit bonuses I figured it would be superb… Trouble is I don’t have one yet and this is pure speculation on my part.

Zero wants high base damage, not high inherent crit. Hawkeye has low base damage, and the high inherent crit drowns out the impact of zeros crit bonuses.

tumtum hawkeye with 600% crit
Base damage * 2 * (1 + 6)
with +200% crit from zeros skills
Base damage * 2 * (1 + 6 + 2)
Zeros crits brings a 28.6% damage increase

muckamuck with 160% crit
Base damage * 2 * (1 + 1.6)
with +200% crit from zeros skills
Base damage * 2 * (1 + 1.6 + 2)
Zeros crits brings a 76.9% damage increase

so with the muck having almost 3 times the base damage:
50 tumtum hawkeye: 13K * 2 * 9 = 234K
50 skookum muck: 34K * 2 * 4.6 = 312.8K



Math doesn’t lie…thanks!

Would this hold true for the LadyFist as well??

Just an aside about the original topic. It reminds me of the saying, “Jack of all trades, master of none.” While I love Zer0, I feel that with him, if you don’t specialize you’re crippling every aspect of him.

yes, as far as drowning out impact, even more so, since snipers have a minimum of 100% inherent crit

but how the lady fist compares in base damage to other pistols I don’t know, so I don’t know what the end results will look like and stack up, never really used pistols

but ladyfist has use with bee for pistols, hawkeye will still lose to pimp with bee

This is a good point…

But I do think you can strike a balance (somewhat) in a Gun Zer0 who can swap mods and still be GREAT at long Range sniping AND mixing it up, in your face. But you have to pretty much ignore melee…which I do anyway.

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Can we revisit this for a second.

I got to thinking about this…Let’s talk practical DPS

OK so the Muckamuck does 312.8K per one shot
And the Hawkeye only 234K per one shot

Yet…practically speaking…

The Muckamuck is Bolt Action and during it’s one shot I get two or even three out with a semi auto Hawkeye. AND the Hawkeye has the best scope in the game except for the Fremington Edge IIRC…so easier to get Crits.

So…practically…in a fight that you want to end as quickly as possible.

Is it not a better consideration…especially at OP8 where NOTHING seems to go down with one head shot?

I have no idea about this…just theorizing…

EDIT: I was thinking the Muckamuck was Bolt Action but when I look at the Wiki…it appears to be Semi…with similar FR to a Hawkeye.

Jacobs snipers differ depending on rarity. It’s a bit strange. White, blue and orange are bolt-action while green and purple are semi-auto.

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practical DPS

Yes, you have the right idea here. This is why the blue red-text jacobs snipers are arse, even without considering CA, which breathes fire rate.

White, blue and orange pearl are bolt-action while green, purple and orange are semi-auto.

But yeah, this.

As for better scope, I don’t think higher zoom is automatically better/easier to crit with. There’s not much of the game going on at extreme distances really, and if you are, urr, ‘excessively zoomed’ for an enemy it’s much harder to keep up with them if they move. This is down to preference of course, but there’s good reason why, say Fiber doesn’t run the highest zoom scopes possible.

Also sway is crazy more noticable the more range/zoomed you are.

However if it is a non-standard sniper that has a spread or burst fire, the greater the scope the smaller the spread. Therefore the more chance of all the hits in the box.

Exactly what are you saying here, that the scope has modifiers to accuracy and stability?

Scope has modifiers to spread, which influences accuracy.

Really? Where did you see this? It’s the first I’ve ever heard of it

The thread right below this one. Here is the link. Scroll down and there are pictures of a test (ADS =Aiming Down Sights)

here are the pics:

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Yes, I see a comparison between ADS and not ADS (with different precision), but I don’t see a comparison between different scopes.

I read the wiki article you posted in that thread on accuracy. It says that different scopes have different modifiers to spread. All guns and skills listed are BL1 though, but usually there’s a BL2 section if it differs mechanically from #1.

I’ve never directly compared the impact of scopes on spread myself, so I don’t know, and I’m not saying you’re wrong. It’s just that scopes are ignored for ‘best parts’ listings and I’ve only ever heard scopes passed off as ‘no impact on mechanics’.

@Chuck80, do you know anything about this?

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First time I hear of that too. I would not be that surprised to find out that it’s true however : nobody really ever bothered to test sights that I know of.

This is quite easy to test though : aim at a wall with a shotgun without a sight, with a weak sight and with a strong sight and compare the patterns after a few dozen shots.

Yeah, and I would if I didn’t have to a) reboot and b) install the game :stuck_out_tongue:

But I wouldn’t mind further tightening my orphan maker, should I ever play this game again