The only point on which I disagree is “click click”. The talent was presently useless cause the number were low, and the application inexistant. In my opinion the number are still too low, but now at least is has some impact.
The Click click talent is obiously not meant to be used when you do “no reload” bottomeless mag build, but Moze also work well with a lot of weapons where even with bottomless, you actually need to reload sometimes as you munch amno faster.
For this weapons, click click upgrade is nice.
This whole buff really opened other weapon for Moze
Id also add they need to nerf the lob guns, because nothing they buff on Iron Bear is ever going to be faster than running four elemental lobs with infinite ammo,
and just spamming and decimating everything in sight; then using a transformer shield and swapping to electric lob to spam your feet when you are getting low on health
trying to find a new iron bear splash damage weapon for vampyr in iron bear usually use explosive mini guns tried the rockets what’s you take on the two testing on Billy with his m4 com I forget the name finding both work but rockets seem faster at the cost of slight fuel increase
Can you expand on what you are talking about here? This is certainly not my experience. Really don’t get how you can say it’s good for “any gun that’s already good on Moze”. It seems like the guns I want to use that do good damage either have low ammo/shoot too fast and need frequent reloads (which also negates damage if using Blast Master) or have such huge mags that the ammo regen keeps the gun so high you will never see any click click bonus unless you cheese the gun on a vending machine.
You are trying to have the max bonus all the time I guess. That’s not how it’s meant to work, it has 3 stages to it’s damage for a reason.
Then you wouldn’t want to use them with Blast Master. And if you are expelling the whole magazine and reloading then you are getting all the stages of CC in the process.
There is no gun that does this by itself, so you are personally putting to much investment into that mag size with skills or passives. There are ways to balance this, such as SRPMS.
You can make any good Moze weapon work with it, which weapon you use determines the other choices you make.
For most efficient way to make use of it I refer you to this:
A Kybs Worth is a great example of a Moze weapon that has various mag sizes / pellet counts(consumption) and can be used in a very efficient way with CC.
I guess it’s counter intuitive to me to say…don’t use a Blast Master when it clearly does the most damage to get proper effect of a skill for damage. Maybe that’s wrong but every time I have tried to force myself to use another MOD my damage has suffered with the exception of an IB based build in which case I am almost always in IB and click click doesn’t matter.
As for the statement that no gun does this by itself…well yeah. That’s the problem. To get to click click you invest heavily into a tree that does that for you. Which is why it feels so counter productive. I’ll just take the Ogre as an example gun. When I have BM tree maxed out my Ogre has over 100 rounds and never goes below 100 unless I continuously fire for a really long, unnatural amount of time. The only way to get it into an effective click click range is to stand next to a vending machine and fire forever and then quickly fill ammo when it gets down to around 50.
I have experimented with various Kyb’s Worth as well. The ones with low mag sizes aren’t getting as big of a click click bonus for one…and also I found hard to manage without reloading (again…using a BM MOD). I could sort of make it work with a 44 mag size Kyb’s Worth that was a x3 but it’s quite finicky to manage this while playing. Not the best experience IMO. Just feels like a lot of work.
I was going off something I saw you post about mag %'s. Must have confused it. It being even more dynamic based on every % of the mag makes it even better to me then.
My point is it’s a ramp up skill and meant to be that way. You aren’t meant to have the max bonus all the time. You are meant to get stronger as your mag empties. Of course if you make a build that doesn’t ever lose a bullet you won’t get anything out of it but there are plenty of ways to build so that you will even taking Forge and mag increases.
Except it’s not. This is from Prismatic’s mathematical breakdown of click click in the Moze guide area:
Bigger magazines can benefit more. Click, Click… is at it’s best when our mag is nearly empty. So the longer we spend with our mag nearly empty the better, larger mag size and skills such as Forge help with this.
If you want Click, Click… to be good you need to build around it.* If you just take 3/3 Click, Click… and then begin emptying your mags normally then the bonus really isn’t great. 3/3 would average 18% on big mag weapons and smaller mags would average less.
The whole thing is counter productive. You get a bigger bonus if you have a bigger mag but if you have a bigger mag it’s really hard to get the bonus. You can’t just use a small mag to simulate being low because the damage scales down the smaller the mag is.
I’m not saying to use a smaller mag to simulate anything. What I meant by more dynamic is that if it increases every single bullet you lose in the mag then it’s more dynamic because it’s increasing every single bullet you lose from the mag contrary to my thinking it had 3 stages.
Again you keep concentrating on getting the biggest possible boost from it at all times and it’s just not the way the skill is designed is what I’m saying. Stop going for the biggest mag ever and find the sweet spot that works in your weapon and maximizes what you can get out of CC for it.
Can you give advice? The ones I know about are Mindsweeper+Vampyr, and Transformer shield+various self-inflicted shock damages. None of them were very good though, last I tried, I always end up throwing Nagatas and healing myself that way. Yawn.
It basicly boils down to we will give you an infinite ammo tree you shall never run dry my son oh and a skill almost at the end of the tree that takes three skill points to max that relies on you having low ammo good luck with that champ -.-
I would never recommend Transformer+shock weapons I hate that tactic. There’s been plenty of people who made SOR builds that used 0 vampyr. And yeah actually Mindsweeper is good too. Then you have the safety switch of Iron Bear as well which you can build in a way it’s available almost all the time. Many people vastly underestimate FCOW with the right shields and TD. Lets not forget the new Sapper com which people are also underestimating.
Another thing to do is just make a build with OP damage and don’t get hit much.
This Anarchy build for example where I hardly ever have to throw a nade for healing.
I want to point out that in the Wotan fight I get hit really hard and lose all my health and I just hopped in IB and out and made use of the +75% hp/shield anoint which brought me right above healthgate. No nade spam was necessary.
Read the math part again. If you aren’t maximizing the skill it’s not a very good bonus so I disagree that you don’t need to concentrate on the biggest possible boost. If you don’t…the skill is not very good.
I’m not arguing that there aren’t maybe a couple weapons you could find that hit some theoretical sweet spot but that is extremely limiting IMO. I don’t think skills that are so far down a skill tree that almost have to be purchased to get the capstone should be so narrowly focused…which is my point. It completely goes against the whole build diversity concept.
It wasn’t very good except in certain circumstances and that’s because the bonus was too low not because of anti-synergy. Now the bonus is a lot better.
It is better. So that’s good. However, the skill still requires performing mag gymnastics to get the bonus so I would argue it’s still anti-synergy. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on that one.
13igTyme
(RIP Kevin - 11/21/19 - Gone but not forgotten.)
#40
I have a pearl with Fire rate and reload. I use Dahl weapons which have a 8-15 base rate of fire and 24 - 45 base mag size. I can keep click click going for a long time if I want to. I can also burn down health very fast if I want to. The skills and gear I have work together to get me through any content with ease.
It’s not anti-synergy, it’s your lack of imagination.
