The Math Behind Burst Dash

I wanted to release this after the patch notes came out, but either way if something changes I’ll have to rework the whole thing. So here it is, behold the math behind burst dash thread.

Note - I have chosen video for my proofing because the screenshots I was able to take were overly blurry, in addition to the cases where multiple numbers are not visible simultaneously. just pause the short clip to see my tested numbers and bear in mind that damage popups always round up to the nearest whole number. - End Note

Note – I have designed this thread in a linear fashion, please read everything in order for the clearest understanding. – End Note

Overview

Burst dashing people to death is hands down my favorite thing to do in this game. Augmenting the skill for maximum damage can produce some savage results that are bound to get you some hate mail from those with a lack of knowledge.

This thread is a precursor to a few others that I have in mind (most notably my work with the Comeback King), but stands alone as its own topic for discussion. I will cover how the total damage is calculated, and in turn give you the tools you need to maximize your burst dash damage. This was originally intended to be a rather short thread, but complications arose with my formulae that took quite some effort to resolve. I’m sure you will find the results most interesting.

With that in mind, I have designed this thread to follow the epic tale of a little insignificant burst dash, formulated out of the level 1 master Deande. You will join it on its adventure as it grows stronger over time, gaining more and more damage as multipliers are added, and reking more and more scrubs along the way. Basically I have one build that I will be looking at and using to explain the different aspects that go into the total damage. However this is by no means a complete and comprehensive guide to EVERYTHING that can amp a burst dash (please I have a life sorta. And this thread is long enough as it sits with a few thousand words and a few videos already cut. Maybe I’ll do a part two sometime.), and it excludes factors that are difficult to reap the benefits from. I’m also focusing primarily on body damage and not critical hits (for the aforementioned reason), but I will mention them in passing here and there.

The following is the build I have chosen to be the standard for all of the following sets of data:


View on lowlidev.com.au

View on lowlidev.com.au

View on lowlidev.com.au

And just as a bit of a spoiler the factors I am covering are Calculated risk, gear stats, burst brawler, and element of surprise.

Also note that outside of the first few parts I will be sticking my character level at level ten exclusively in order to give the most impressive damage numbers as well as make a clearer distinction between percentage increases. However, if you want to browse the numbers for all of the factors that I will cover at all levels then I have prepared a nice spreadsheet for your viewing pleasure.

https://1drv.ms/x/s!AifsmXv2tJj_cCZ9KLSnrv8EeEQ

Note – The blue boxes in the spreadsheet represent data I have personally tested and can provide visual proof for. Everything else is calculated, however that shouldn’t make it incorrect, just ever so slightly less reliable than the blue numbers. But if you do see inaccuracies then let me know ASAP. – End Note

Now my friends, we may begin.

For starters I should point out that there are two ways to increase the damage of burst dash. The first is to increase the base damage (i.e. leveling up) and the second is to increase the multiplier to the base damage (i.e. gear stats).

Base Damage

This is the pure number value of damage done without any percentage increases through skill damage gear or helix choices. When the game looks at the total damage output this is the first thing that it looks at. That makes this your most important stat when looking at total damage as low base damage will in turn have diminishing results for the same multiplier. Additionally, trying to compensate for a low base damage with a high multiplier is difficult and may require you to forgo other traits that play heavily into Deande’s lethality.

So how does one get base damage on burst dash? Easy. There are two ways to gain two types of base damage in the game: Level (static), and calculated risk (dynamic).

Base Damage Based on Level (Static Base Damage)

On the skill card for burst dash it says that the skill does 200 damage. However that number can be a bit misleading. When you look at that number you have to keep in mind that it is scaled to level 0 and since you cannot be level zero you cannot do a straight 200 damage. Since the damage on burst dash scales linearly by 8 for each level, and since you start at level 1, this effectively makes your minimum possible base damage 208. Here’s a photo to confirm.

Thanks @blainebrossart1 for the awesome screenshot

Of course this does not factor in debuffs applied to you or the enemy such as external damage amps (priority mark, desecrate, sunspot, etc.) or weakens.

By the time you reach level 10 you will have a total of 280 base damage based on the leveling increase. This first type of base damage is what I call static base damage because it is constant. No matter what your situation is in game your damage output calculation will always start with at least this number. Even when weakened you will still have a static base that remains the same, with the debuff effect acting as a negative (not negative mathematically) multiplier to the damage.

Base Damage Based on Calculated Risk (Dynamic Base Damage)

Calculated Risk is by far my favorite helix choice in the game. If you don’t know already it takes your current shield pool and divides it by two, then applies that number to your base damage.

Since this is a level 4 helix you will have at least a static base damage of 232. When you take this helix choice your base 300 shield pool will be turned into 150 points of base damage, thus making your total base damage at level 4 equal to 382 points of damage. At level 10 you will have a total of 430 base damage.

That is already a solid amount of damage. It can be bumped up even more by activating our maximum shield strength gear.

Maximum stat shield strength gear comes with a primary stat of + 140 shield strength to the pool, with secondary stats coming in at + 98 shield strength. If you set your gear up to have a shield strength buff in each slot you end up with an additional 336 points to your shield, giving you grand total of 636 shield strength or 318 additional base damage.

With this max shield strength build you have a total base damage of 598 at level 10. This is the maximum base damage you can possibly have (no I’m not going to mention those rare gears that give you shield and then more shield because they are unreliable and no one uses them, I’m also trying to stay away from legendaries here. looking at you One-4-all shield array). Here’s a quick visual confirmation:

That’s already an impressive amount of damage for a single attack that isn’t delivered by a weird bird person. However the problem with this type of base damage is that it changes due to a certain condition, hence the name dynamic base damage. That condition is the state of you CURRENT shield pool.

Calculated risk will only give you that fabulous 598 damage if your shield is at maximum strength at the time of skill activation. If you have no shield then you will be stuck with that pitiful 280 damage. And if you can have a shield at any random number between full and empty, and if the calculated risk damage is always half the current shield pool, then your base damage will fluctuate accordingly.

Damage Multipliers

Damage multipliers are numbers that come into play after the base damage. They are percentage increases, and so by the nature of percentage the more base damage you have the more the multiplier effects the total damage.

Just like with base damage there are two types of multipliers: constant and conditional. It’s also important to note that damage multipliers apply multiplicatively as opposed to additively. For example, if you have a total of 100 damage and you want to apply two different multipliers (say 25% and 50%) your formula would be 100 x 1.25 x .1.5 instead of 100 x 1.75. This applies to all multipliers (that I’ve looked at for this post) which in turn frees up your order of operation. However that doesn’t mean you can just start running around and multiplying. There are a few curveballs that the game throws with this kind of thing, and some of it can get really confusing if you are not a math person.

Constant Damage Multipliers

These are multipliers that are always in effect when a burst dash does damage, no matter the situation. These come in the form of gear stats as well as the left level 6 helix choice, burst brawler. Taking these types of multipliers is always a good idea as you always have them, however there is only a limited amount of this type available for you to choose.

Note – The secondary conditional stats on green and blue gear pieces would count as conditional damage multipliers. – End Note

For instance, if you are running the maximum base damage setup, then there are only two possible slots for you to take a skill damage multiplier. At max stats that will be a +9.1% buff as well as a +5.46% buff, for a total of +15.05686% (let me have my decimals!). If we multiply that by our base damage we get 90.04 extra damage on top of our base.

If at this point you are wondering how I got 15ish percent from a 9.1 and a 5.46 (which added together gives me 14.56%) then you should get some sleep! It’s clearly 2am for you and you are too tired to focus. But if you actually don’t get it then all you have to do is remember that multipliers apply multiplicatively. I.e. 1.0546 x 1.091 = 1.150686.

If you still don’t get it then just trust me, it works. Look at this proof too with only the maximum base damage and gear stats. With the extra 90ish damage on top of the 598 you would expect to see 689 total damage.

See? It works.

This is still a fair chunk of damage, however it isn’t an amount that breaks the game or anything.

Apart from gear stats there is also Burst Brawler. This one is pretty self-explanatory, giving a +15% increase to burst dash damage.

If you multiply it onto the base damage exclusively you get 688 damage. (i.e. 598 x 1.15)

If you multiply with the gear stats in there as well you get 792 damage (i.e. 598 x 1.091 x 1.0546 x 1.15)

Conditional Damage Multipliers

These are multipliers that are only applied under certain conditions. The most significant of these is Element of Surprise (EOS, Deande’s passive), however the critical hit multiplier is worth mentioning here as well.

EOS is a multiplier worth +25% extra damage, however this buff is only applied when attacking within a 5 second period after breaking stealth. This limits its use, but the sizable boost it will provide to your burst dash can warrant the activation of holotwin as a non-escape.

Under most circumstances EOS factors into the equation in the same fashion as burst brawler, with it being a straight 1.25 multiplication. If we multiply into the base damage we get 748 damage, and if we add burst brawler into the equation you get 860 damage.

However! There is one thing you must know before applying EOS: It DOES NOT factor in normally with gear stats of skill damage.

I will explain this in just a second, but real quickly on the topic of the critical multiplier, it’s a 1.5x multiplier that is only active on (surprise, surprise) a critical hit on an enemy battleborn. I don’t have footage for this one because supply stations are hard to crit and I didn’t want to drag a friend through the grind that my testing and proof is. And as I alluded to before the crit multiplier, while it is a massive boost, 95% of the time you hit body shots and render this useless.

The Interaction between Skill Damage and EOS

This little bit is probably going to be the most important for anyone reading this. Figuring this out was so damn frustrating, and I couldn’t figure out what was wrong with my equations, but I finally got it. Anyway, here it is:

Skill damage buffs increase EOS’s multiplier value.

That is to say that your EOS multiplier WILL NOT be 25% if you have any skill damage buffs.

That may come as a surprise to you (like it did for me), as it effectively means that your skill damage multipliers get factored in twice. They are double bonuses to damage under EOS. This one will really need some proof so I have two scenarios set up.

This first test is done with only the maximum base damage (598), EOS (25%), and a single skill damage multiplier of 9.1%. If you multiply those together (seriously, do it) you get a total of 815.5 damage.

Observe. (has both EOS and non-EOS test in one video)

In the clip you clearly see 831 damage. That is because the 9.1% buff to the damage of the skill is also a 9.1% buff to the passive multiplier. Not additively, but not exactly multiplicatively like we’ve been doing up to now. Instead you have to treat the 25% as a base damage of sorts.

To get the new multiplier of EOS you simply take the 25 and multiply by 1.091. This will in turn give you 27.275. This is the new EOS passive multiplier. Plug this new number into the formula and calculate the damage to get the number seen in the footage. Or you can trust me if you are lazy.

In the second situation I have added everything together. This is the maximum base damage. Burst brawler. EOS and Gear stats. Everything but the crit multiplier.

Again, multiplying normally yields a result of 925, however the result here is significantly more.

You get 1019 damage. This is the maximum non-crit damage for the build, and it’s a body shot for over 1000! Following the same steps as before we multiply our skill damage into our EOS.

25 x 1.091 x 1.0546 = 28.76 – your new EOS multiplier.

Then it’s just a matter of applying that to the overall formula.

598 x 1.091 x 1.0546 x 1.15 x 1.2876 = 1018.8 damage. Or 1019 cuz rounding.

When I first discovered this I was confused as to why the damage was calculated this way, however I thought about it while I was reking scrubs and it came to me: EOS is a passive SKILL.

Just because it’s not your skill 1 or skill 2 doesn’t make it unworthy to receive skill damage buffs. It still a skill in its own right. This is the same reason why Mellka’s venom benefits from skill damage. It’s just a little weird that this is applying directly to a percentage value and not an actual base damage, but still that’s why I think the game does it. And as it just so happens the game is set up in a way that you can receive double bonuses in this case.

Key Points and formulas

Note – This section is intended to serve as a post review of all the most important stats and information to consider when looking at burst dash damage. It’s also here so that you can reference for the last few parts without going through the whole post. – End Note.

  • At level 1 burst dash does 208 damage and scales linearly by 8 each time, for a total of 280 static base damage.
  • With all gear at maximum stats, if you have a shield capacity gear in each slot you will have a 636 capacity shield, for a 318 more dynamic base damage.
  • Total base damage is equal to 598.
  • Multipliers factor in multiplicatively.
  • At max stats you can have two skill damage multipliers, one worth 9.1% extra damage, and one worth 5.46%.
  • Burst Brawler is worth 15% extra damage
  • EOS is worth 25% extra damage.
  • Skill damage buffs multiply the EOS percentage bonus

Total damage formula: (static base + dynamic base) x skill damage x burst brawler x EOS = total damage

EOS multiplier formula: 25 x skill damage 1 x skill damage 2 x skill damage 3 x etc.

Note – Omit values you do not use in these equations, DO NOT set them to zero. – End Note

Max Shield vs Skill Damage

So this is a question that was posed to me a while back and I thought that there was no better time than now to give a 100% accurate response.

The question is simple, if you have a gear loadout that has the first two pieces of gear like this,


View on lowlidev.com.au

View on lowlidev.com.au

Then what is better to take as a secondary on your final piece of gear, shield strength, or skill damage?

To answer this we must look at the two cases separately. Additionally I will be factoring in all gear, EOS, level 10, burst brawler, and calculated risk. Double additionally, I have a line of data on the second case on the right end of my spreadsheet that you may want to look at.

https://1drv.ms/x/s!AifsmXv2tJj_cCZ9KLSnrv8EeEQ

Case 1

In this case our final piece of gear will have a secondary of shield capacity. First let’s figure out the EOS multiplier, then do the total damage formula.

(25 x 1.091 x 1.0546) = 28.76

(280 + 318) x 1.091 x 1.0546 x 1.15 x 1.2876 = 1019

You’ve already seen the proof that this is correct because it’s literally the same loadout my entire post is based on.

Result: 1019 total damage.

Case 2

By process of elimination the secondary stat in this case is skill damage. Same thing.

(25 x 1.091 x 1.0546 x 1.0546) = 30.33

(280 + 269) x 1.091 x 1.0546 x 1.0546 x 1.15 x 1.3033 = 999

(This one is a screen cap because i couldn’t trim the video. Look at that annoying blur.)

Result: 999 total damage.

Analysis

All in all the shield capacity secondary did more damage. By a mere 20 points. Of course I knew that already, which is why I was using the shield capacity secondary this entire time (and the math is cleaner). But the answer isn’t as simple as “more damage means better”.

If fact, for the comparison of these two builds I would strongly argue the skill damage secondary to be the superior choice. There are a number of reasons for this, however the main one has to do with the fact that skill damage is a more universal stat across all of Deande’s skills, and in the odd case of her passive it provides a slight buff to her attack damage as well.

While I don’t have exact numbers on blink storm, attack damage, and the holotwin explosion, the double buff imparted by the skill damage/EOS combo will greatly increase your damage across the entire engagement. And even without exact numbers I’m fairly confident in saying that if you are using at least one other skill is said engagement you will be doing more damage than the 20 lost on your burst dash by not taking the shield capacity.

Another reason in the case of skill damage superiority is the recharge time required to reach your full damage potential. Since Deande has a +60 shield regen per second, the addition of another 98 shield capacity to the pool adds 1.63 seconds to the recharge time. From the point of your shield being broken to fully recharge the secondary of shield recharge will have a total time of 15.6 seconds to fully recharge, whereas the build with a secondary of skill damage will have to wait only about 14 seconds. That might not seem that significant, but when you are positioning yourself for a kill you need that shield up and every second counts.

Building on that previous point, the skill damage loadout has a higher damage output when your shields are depleted. Working off quick math (factoring all other stats including EOS) that’s 478 damage of the shield loadout and 510 on the skill loadout. And it’s like that throughout the entire game’s levels. I even put a comparison of the case 2 loadout in my excel spreadsheet if you want to compare the two build, and you’ll notice that before calculated risk the damage is much better on the skill damage loadout. Without that shield capacity up at max the shield loadout falls behind by about 32 points of damage. This, again, might not seem that significant, however shields are difficult to keep at max HP when in the middle of combat. It’s kinda the glass cannon effect on steroids where literally any damage source (especially Mellka) can turn your massive one-shot capabilities into a limp noodle smacking of damage that barely brings the Orendi down to half.

Furthermore! (And this is a little more obscure reason in favor of the skill damage loadout) think of the primary stats. For example, with the shield loadout build you have the choices of attack speed, attack damage, and critical hit damage as your primaries on the last gear. Those are actually some really solid choices, however, with the skill damage loadout you can run this:


View on lowlidev.com.au

Now granted that this point is based heavily in the realm of personal preference, and is thus my weakest point. However I believe this shard generator to be a much superior choice to the shield strength primaries. The main reasons being that A, if this is your first activation you can fund your other gear as well as level ups more effectively, and B, because it comes with a negative stat that you can actually use as opposed to the movement speed decrease that the others carry (which if you’ve been around long enough you’ll know that reducing movement speed on Deande is probably up there with taking reload speed gear on her).

There is one tiny thing if favor of the shield capacity build though, and that is that you gain a small bit of survivability from it. Yes it’s a small and pathetic amount, but it’s there none the less. And who knows, it might just save your life.

So for my final answer, take the skill damage if you can. It will make you a more rounded Deande. However I get that some people might not be able to do that. If you don’t have a skill damage secondary then take the shield strength because it is by no means bad, only slightly inferior.

Conclusion

I hope I was able to teach you people something new with this. It’s been in development for a long time now, and as you would expect I put a lot of work into it. Either way, the math behind burst dash was something I’ve been meaning to figure out for myself for a long time now. It’s just a shame that real life prevented me from taking the time to explore other multipliers and factors that go into the total damage output. Just think of the crazy numbers I could force with a Beatrix, Reyna, Kid Ultra, and Ambra. On a crit!

But I think that dream is best suited for another time. These basic factors are all I will need to build on if further posts. Especially the one on the Comeback King.

For now, let me know if you found any of this either useful or interesting. Let me know if there is a way I could improve this post somehow. But most importantly, let me know if I’m wrong about something.

Perfection shall be achieved.

20 Likes

So basically stacking shield capacity and skill damage let’s you wreck scrubs with Burst Dash. Good to know!

6 Likes

[quote=“Nemosis327, post:1, topic:1554234”]
And just

Yup, I realized when I saw EoS damage in the recap, showing that it’s not actually a direct damage increase, but an additional damage thrown on top instantly (like Alani’s legendary heal but instant). Thus, skill damage would increase it. Thanks for the confirmation to a theory I’ve had since I mained her

All the rest is great. I didn’t dive into the spreadsheets but you’re accurate enough where any concern is equal to paranoia. Bravo (have you ever considered doing a video showcase of your best Deande kick spots? Ik on Overgrowth I was uh, surprised by the things possible).

Is there anyway to reliably proc ‘The Culling’ to make the number even bigger, or is it only your own Burst Dash weaken that procs it? And how long does her weaken last btw?

There are other characters that have the weaken status effect to proc the culling. El Dragon, Attikus and Beatrix to the best of my knowledge are the only ones other than Deande that have a weaken. Ideally Beatrix since her’s is ranged and would function similar to a priority target exclusively for Deande.

Nemo and I have discussed this a few times for maximum broken-ness on Deande.

Thanks I know that, but Kitru said it only procced off Deande’s weaken and nothing else I think. I know he knows what he’s talking about for the most part, but his guides are pretty rapid fire compared to where I’m used to confidently trusting my info. So I thought a Deande main whom already does testing could provide a more concrete answer (in my mind).

If it works on any weaken, then I don’t see why the Pacifier wouldn’t be the staple of every high cost Deande build. A 23% multiplier to all of your own damage after initial hit would be waaay better than just 18% melee damage. Well worth the extra 750 shards.

1 Like

Amazing post. I’m going use my newfound knowledge of skill damage multipliers, skill damage affecting passives, and other goodies to pump up my game with other characters. Notably, I’m going to do some work with Attikus’ secondary (what affects it, what doesn’t), and Mellka’s poison DoT. You’ve inspired me, Nemo.

Thank you for all the work you’ve done.

1 Like

I don’t know for certain myself but that’s what Nemo told me. I also believe at some point he told be that the pacifier doesn’t proc the culling but other character’s weakens do.

@blainebrossart1

Who would have thunk it?!

@epicender584

it could be my next project. it’s competing with the comeback king thread and another montage.

but here is a fun little clip to tide you over.

@khimerakiller

the bust dash applies weaken. it does not benefit from the weaken it applies. I believe the debuff duration is five seconds, so much shorter than your burst dash cooldown. that said you can’t take advantage of the culling on burst dash with your own weaken.

however, if you can get someone else to apply the weaken it should amplify your burst dash. the reason I didn’t include the culling in this post is because it’s just too damn hard to benefit from on burst dash specifically. Yes atti and dragon can apply a weaken, but they can’t really hit the same targets that you can (I.e. that marquis sitting in the back of the map, the one who needs the high damage burst dash to the face). when those two characters apply a weaken nine times out of ten it’s in a situation where the 23% extra damage would be redundant.

But Beatrix, oh Beatrix…

it’s like Blaine said, priority mark exclusively for Deande. That is of course if everything works how it’s supposed to. because who knows, it might not apply like I think it might and there is no way to test it because we don’t have Beatrix yet.

I tell you what though, ill grab some people and run a test to see if attikus and dragon proc it correctly. I don’t want to sit here guesstimating, and possibly giving out wrong information when I have the tools to correct myself. I’m almost positive im right about external sources of weaken, but im paranoid about being wrong on things.

@arcaneredneck

:hearts:

7 Likes

That was a delightful read/view. Very well done, very informative. Bravo!

I actually never really tried to get to know Deande in PvP. Her playstyle is so different compared to Galilea, but I think after the winter update I’m gonna give her some playing time. She looks so fun when you know what you’re doing.

1 Like

Deande OP, pls buff drop kick and remove burst dash to compensate

1 Like

Okay. I’ve tested external weakens and the pacifier.

They do not amp damage of Burst dash. Only Deande’s weaken applies to the Culling. Which is complete BS. Her weaken still does not buff burst dash.

@khimerakiller

This is my final confirmation. I can post videos as proof if you like.

Damn I’m glad I test these things.

4 Likes

I’ll take your word unless you already have it on hand.

And if you don’t mind, could I hijack your thread a little bit and post the PvE formula? My old hypothesized one was a bit wrong since I didn’t take into consideration that EoS would get buffed by skill damage twice, and I was originally told almost any lingering CC from any source procced ‘The Culling’. Or you could do it, just substitute the AS gear with Aria’s Encore and the 50% crit multiplier with a 200% one. For even bigger and prettier numbers.

#forgetcritgear

…Just one word: Wow! :sunny:

1 Like

… I wonder if any weaken works with Burst Dash. The only way to test would be an inane combination of firmware and cooldown secondaries, and then crazy luck. But seriously, it could potentially be impossible. We have no way to find out until a brawl with decreased cooldown (time for pillarstorm every 20 seconds)

Ay some point in the last few months you started beginning every post with ellipses and I love it. It keeps me in suspense. What’s coming next? :scream:

Hijack away. Burst dash math is what this thread is all about. And it’d be interesting to see a little bit of the Pve side of things since I just do whatever in Pve.

1 Like

@Nemosis327 your testing is much appreciated and thorough.

1 Like

I’m sure there are higher damage combos with gear (at least for a crit), but these 3 are the most reliable IMO.

  • Purple Jennerit max shield capacity
  • Purple LLC skill damage
  • Aria’s Encore

[((280)+(0.5*(300+140+98)))*((1.091)*(1.0546)*(1.0546)*(1.2))*((1.25)*( 1.091)*(1.0546)*(1.0546)*(1.2))*(1.15)*(3)]

  • Body shot - 1674
  • PvE Crit - 5020

Excluding enemy specific multipliers. Feel free to check my math if you want, or if you think there is a better gear combo feel free to suggest it.

1 Like

Too bad it’s nearly impossible to land in red bar.

Potential 1000 damage becomes zero…

3 Likes

Phenomenal work! Thank you so much for writing all this up.

2 Likes