The Mayhem 3.0 we want

Borderlands 3 Borderlands 3 General Discussion
#21

Regardless of where they choose to take Mayhem mode, any system will probably require the following to be successful:

  • “Balance”, preferably in favor of build variety, utilizing all the games systems and having smooth-ish progression between difficulty levels.
  • Review and adjust or eliminate current modifiers that are not particularly fun, create scenarios that are impossible to win or cause undesirable performance degradation.
  • Add new modifiers to taste or as required by the chosen system.

Personally, I would also like the “balance” to eliminate “■■■■-tier” uniques from the game. It’s just a sneaky manipulation of the loot tables that cheapens the experience of receiving a unique item.

I think it would also be neat if GBX could create new enemy costume/appearance for the different modifiers instead of giving them a swirly colored aura. There just aren’t enough colors with which to identify all the modifiers. The flip side to this is that it might be considerable work if they have to make new enemy models.

As for the overall Mayhem mechanics themselves, I think it could go in one of the following directions:

[A] Bastion-Like

  • We can choose to activate up to n modifiers.
  • The modifiers are scored by how difficult they make the game.
  • The aggregate difficulty of the combined modifiers is used to adjust the level of reward.

[B] D3-Like

  • Keep the difficulty slider that adjusts the overall difficulty and reward.
  • Randomize the chance and type of modifier that badass enemies can spawn with.
  • Adjust which modifier can appear and how often they show up according to difficulty slider.

[C] BL2-Like

  • Add a raid-like area with a variety of challenges that do not disproportionately favor/disfavor any one build.
  • Require each character to clear the raid at increasing levels of difficulty before being allowed to progress to the next difficulty.
  • But avoid the overlevel-style requirement for item usage, so the player can choose for themselves if they wan to twink a character or not.

A and B would be mutually exclusive.
Not sure if A and C could work together.
B and C could be combined by removing the difficulty slider and keeping the randomized modifiers.

2 Likes
#22

I don’t like the new system at all. The main issue to me is that playing let’s say M6-M9 versus M10 feels bad, because you are rewarded with the same, but shittier weapons.

I get the idea behind it, grind your way up from M4 to M10 and so on. But it is punishing, you are not farming for your endgame, you are farming for a crutch to take you one level higher that you will replace literally tomorrow.

Anyway, instead of going through all the levels many players went through an initially painful slog of playing M10 right away. It’s fine now with the right gear, but getting there - not much fun.

Most modifiers are bad or at least annoying, although there are a few good ideas.

I wonder why make a mess of a game in pretty decent state(pre 2.0 M4)? Adding some hidden weapon damage multipliers shown nowhere, while making all AS, pet, melee, grenade damage useless and allowing for rerolling for the perfect, least impactful mayhem mod combo so that people never see other modifiers again?

I dunno, I’d rather see plain, harder M5, one new level, no BS. Add more mob density, add some extra spawns a la Cartel, replace half of the regulars with badasses. Sprinkle it with a handful of exclusive weapons, no additional weapon scaling, fix existing scaling issues. But, I would include Slayer aka Glory Kill as a permanent addition to the game. This one is good, adds a new layer to decision making in close combat and kind of brings back melee.

Onto the modifiers. I’m not a fan of this system, so I would gladly scrap most of them and incorporate the remaining good ones in other ways.
Slayer is a good one. Speed Demon can be fun too, I would see it as a droppable speed booster from enemies, like ammo or health pickups. Heal thingy and Buddy System (invulnerability drone) are very fair ones, they make encounters more challenging but if you play more skillfully, you overcome them more easily, this is, in a way, rewarding. Buddy system could be a permanent addition to some % of Maliwan badasses. I don’t understand why they announced Floor is Lava so proudly. It is not difficult, it is easily managable, just plainly annoying. The Pool Party is similar. Rogue Lite is a bad idea too. Why freely give up on a good mechanic? FFYL informs you of your limits and prevents frustration of frequent respawning. Big Heads are just dumb imo, but I already understand I’m too old to be target audience of this game. Crit, No-crit and DoT modifiers are boring and only punishing specific builds. Due to rerolling you will never choose them if you are running that build. Why bother?

To sum it up, I don’t think forced higher numbers + wacky modifiers are a way to go, I’d rather see more optional, extremely difficult content to have something to strive for - AND something that would measure your progress, like leaderboards with best location clear times / highest infinite dungeon levels / king of the hill waves cleared, something like this.

1 Like
#23

I would also like to be able to keep my own modifiers, while in a co-op game. So, if I have floor is lava, I can’t stand still, but it won’t affect other players (who may have skills that require them not to be moving). This might be difficult to do, but ideally could work.
(I have big head mode with my Fl4k, as it was the least annoying modifier I could get to roll and it’s OK, but I have noticed when I have joined friends without that modifier, enemy heads are sometimes still big, so some modifiers seem to carry across. I’d just make it all of them, and not affect multiple players.)

Or, let us pool our modifiers, if we want to, for increased difficulty. So if I have big head and someone joins my game with lootsplosion, we get big heads that explode into lots of loot when you shoot them.

#24

never even thought about that! :joy:

finding coop matches should be so much fun right now! :smiley: seen so many people allready talking about that since the game launched (how atrocious it is to find coop games)

(i hate coop so i wouldn’t know haha)

can’t imagine how it would work now with all the random ■■■■■■■■ hahahaha

1 Like
#25

I was gonna write this on a separate post but I think it could probably belong here.

Transcending Items

The idea is combining 5 items of the same type you can upgrade it to a better version of that gun. How much better? It should be at least better than an untranscended Kaoson or Sand hawk. Of course a transcended Kaoson should be better than a transcended Ripper but a transcended Ripper will be better than an untranscended Kaoson stat wise.

The anointment of the transcension is based on the anointment of the first copy. You still have to find the right anointment but the remaining 4 copies could be any anointment. This gives the player a control of what the final transcended item would be.

What benefits are we getting?

  • Suddenly multiple world drop loots are now more appealing to collect
  • Refarming bosses multiple times and getting thr wrong anoint is not a waste because those can be use as transcension materials
  • All guns are now viable when transcended
  • It’s easier to transcend world drops than dedicated drops. So you have a choice of convenience or uber op transcended weapons.
  • Yes transcended Yellowcake would be ultra op now but a transcended Ripper can work on M10 as well as if it’s the current Kaoson now (for example)

What about level cap?

  • For those who love refarming items, it shouldn’t be any different. You can still have a transcended lvl 57 item and a transcended lvl 60. Of course the latter is stronger

Won’t this make difficult to acquire dedicated items to transcend?

  • In theory yes. Dedicated loot should feel more special. But in practice it’s not difficult because of the proliferation of dupe and mailed items – the reality
2 Likes
#26

I see nothing wrong with having unusual modifiers in game. Ones that make sense. Ones that add goofyness and fun. Making this game like Cod or battlefield would be a mistake. The last thing this game needs is to be taken too seriously. Guns explosions and mayhem, yes.

1 Like
#27

I would change the modifiers so that they are an OPTIONAL feature. The scalling should stay the same and decide the mayhem level you are. Then you can choose freely which modifiers to use.
We should be able to change how many and which modifiers we want to use without affecting our mayhem level. If someone wants to use 2 easy modifiers together and play on mayhem 10 they should be able to do it. If they need a challenge and want to try all very hard modifiers on mayhem 10 why stop them. If they hate modifiers and do not want them, they can just not select any modifiers.
That’s choice. Not what we have now.

2 Likes
#28

Big brother if you are reading this , Modifiers Off switch will be appreciated !

4 Likes
#29

To start: no more rolling modifiers. Players can select the modifiers they want to use. This would allow more players to actually try the different modifiers. Rolling just takes way to long.

Revisit and adjust the modifiers. So many are too extreme. I thought Death was a good idea, but it needs it’s HP drastically reduced and it needs to follow the physics laws. Too many times it pops out of a wall, out of the middle of stairs, etc.
Buddy System- again, make the drones follow the physics. They should NEVER appear behind walls or objects that you can’t shoot them. This was bad sloppy design an should never happen like this.

Gotta run for now, but most of the modifiers need adjustment,

1 Like
#30

Well, is a “very hard” modifier, right? It is already the easiest and least intrusive modifier, but it needs to retain some “very hard” aspect to it to make sense (given that killing DEATH is already quite easy as it is).

#31

I think Death is pretty easy, except that it only seems to take damage around 5% of the time with most weapons. I tend to switch to the lob, which works every time, or just run away until it disappears.
At least with Zane or Fl4k, you can just headbutt Death and use old-U or pet revive to get out of FFYL. Although I have punched Death once or twice with Amara and let guardian angel save me.
It’s actually quite a good modifier, I just wish Death was easier to damage and had more HP, and actually gave xp when you kill it.

#32

That is a matter of opinion of course. Depends on VH and playstyle.

But no matter what, it should be staying outside of walls, abve floors, stairs, etc, you know visible and able to be damaged?
Not popping up out of floors or from areas not accessible to damage?

1 Like
#33

…it disappears? O.o

With mode, the monarch kills death in moments, btw.

Absolutely, no doubt about that. Buddy system does the same and it is even more aggravating because when it happens it blocks your progression, as you can’t kill either the drone or the enemy. That’s why I find DEATH to be less intrusive, at least it does not get stuck around.

1 Like