If a gun is collected at Mayhem 10, it ought to be able to kill things playing at Mayhem 10. That would keep me enjoying this game.
That would be a nice idea… the problem is that the gun alone is not enough in this game anymore. Gear and action skills/skill trees all are of secondary importance compared to annointments.
In my view the problem is that the guns themselves are not well-balanced and there are too many junk anoints. Anointment chance being 100% in M10 was a good first step toward balancing loot quality with difficulty but more change is needed.
The good anoints are indeed important to M10 - but that would be fine if there were more guns that worked in M10 given a good anoint and if there were fewer trash anoints.
Is there anybody out there using the newly buffed slide and airborne anoints? I doubt it. Get rid of these garbage rolls. Get rid of status effect Anoints. Get rid of accuracy/handling anoints.
If most drops had a useful anoint and gun base damages were well-balanced, this complaint about most drops being trash would be addressed. The build-diversity issue would be addressed.
Sure, some setups would be better than others. But not to the silly degree that currently pigeonholes everyone into using only about 12 different guns total in a game with at least 220 legendary items and hundreds of other guns that used to be capable of handling endgame but have been badly outpaced by the Mayhem health/shield/armor levels.
Yes, it’s true. Anointments are way to powerful. Tbh they ruin many other aspects of the game.
If damage anointments weren’t so utterly overpowered compared to skills, gear and other anoints then we wouldn’t have this discussion to begin with. As of right now anoints either make or break weapons reason being that anonits are so powerful. They need to be nerfed to 10-30% DMG immediately.
That would require completely rebalancing the scaling of Mayhem levels and/or buffing character skills.
There’s a reason that so few guns are currently used and it’s not anointments. It’s that balancing across different items is poor.
For example, few people now would even consider a gun like Malak’s Bane or Lucian’s Call, no matter what the anointment is. Why? Because those guns do such terrible damage compared to, say, the Unseen Threat or OPQ.
Or how about we compare the Plaguebearer with the Scourge?
Kyb’s Worth vs Kaoson?
Hydrafrost vs Linoge?
Even the once-mighty Ion Cannon is now at best a niche item for long-distance one-shots because Backburner and Globetrottr are things.
I could go on and on like this.
Nerfing anointments down to almost nothing won’t make people suddenly go “wow, the Malak’s Bane is awesome” or “this build with the Embrace the Pain is OP” because those guns will still be grossly underpowered compared to the available alternatives.
Now, I agree that the fact that the overwhelming majority of drops are garbage is a problem. But as I just pointed out, nerfing anointments can not be a solution.
It’s like you noticed a leaky faucet and decided that repainting the kitchen would make it better.
So to reiterate my point - the problem is caused by poor item balancing and by the presence of too many trash anoints in the pool of possible anointments. The mere existence of powerful anointments isn’t a problem so long as the underlying items are balanced and the chance of getting a good anointment is reasonable.
Neither of those is true of this game at this moment. Nerfing anointments to nothing fixes at most one of these problems, and it does so by blowing up a major part of the framework of the game.
You’ll cure the disease by killing the patient.
Anointments add to the problem. How do you scale weapons and enemies when a RNG based anointment increases damage output of player A by 100℅ while player B only has that weapon with an accuracy anointment? If the 100℅ was only 10℅ it wouldn’t make a big difference. You could actually create a proper baseline.
I think you’re not really hearing my point.
Did I not say quite clearly that one thing I would do is get rid of many of the trash anoints?
I even specifically mentioned the accuracy anoint (emphasis added):
Your last post is not, therefore, in any way an answer to what I’m saying.
So I’ll say it again: anointments have nothing to do with the poor balancing of the basic features of the guns themselves. Removing anointments doesn’t magically make the Kyb’s Worth comparable to the Kaoson.
What you say you want is not a solution to the problem that was described by the OP.
Yes and you would be killing diversity by doing that. We would be left with about 4 anointments. That’s against anything the game stands for.
- Nerf DMG anointments to a point where they are bonuses and not the sole focus of this game because right now they dwarf skills, gear and other anointments.
- Make anointments drop as seperate loot items like weapon trinkets that you can apply on your weapon of choice.
Have you actually read anything I said?
With nerfed anointments, Bad guns will still be bad. OP guns will still be OP.
There can be no build diversity without a well-balanced set of items.
Are you seriously claiming that bas anointments could help build diversity?
How does making a Ten Gallon more accurate turn it into a substitute for the Kaoson?
How does a Status Effect chance anoint on the Headsplosion - or even on a gun with an element like the Spinner - make it deal anywhere near as much damage as the Skullmasher or Redistributor?
You don’t like the anointment mechanic. That’s fine. But all you’ve offered in defense of nerfing anointments is a series of non-sequiturs and magical thinking.
Well, that’s a lie. I love the anointment mechanic, but I recognize that poorly balanced anointments cause major balancing issues.
I mean, can’t this wait one more week?
Not for nothing, but we’ve know for about a month now that Phase 1 was going to be for guns, and phase 2 was going to be for everything else. Guns regularly get adjusted in hotfixes and patches while Action Skills only get adjusted around major content updates and grenades and melee have never been adjusted.
I get that people want more viable weapons, but everything else has been less powerful than a peashooter since launch. Give GB at least this one patch to focus on something aside from guns. They really need much more to get these things up to snuff, but just give them this one at least to do a deep dive. After that, go ahead and press as much as you desire.
You both have a point. The issue is both gear aand annoints.
Why do some guns vastly out perform others even with the same annoint.
Why do some annoints vastly out perform others even on the same gun.
BALANCE… Guns need to be brought into a mode of greater viability… As do annointments. Why do we have so many trash annoints… And so many trash guns. Getting rid of the trash in either case does not fix the issue… it just limits us to very few options.
Personally… I think under performing weapons need to be buffed… at least to the point of being viable even if it is in a niche situation. I also thing all higher performing annoints should be scaled down so they are on a more suitable level so they are bonuses not necessities. (Read Post here)
If you like it, why are you a) suggesting that it be nerfed so hard as to be irrelevant; and b) refusing to even consider the possibility that the problem could be anything else?
Forgive my incorrect inference, but nothing you have said suggests that you’re a fan.
But more importantly, you have - yet again - not made any substantive response to the actual points I’ve made.
So please, answer this question: How would nerfing anointments fix the fact that a very small % of specific guns wildly outclass the vast majority of other items holding anointment constant across the items?
My answer to this question is simple: it doesn’t.
We’ve been hearing this since launch. How about we get a complete game when we buy it?
This is a more reasonable idea because it actually addresses the issue of the guns themselves.
My concern with nerfing anoints as well is that the Mayhem scaling would need to be re-tuned. GBX’s recent history with balancing while also re-scaling enemy toughness is not good.
I’d rather just see guns buffed. Easier to not screw it up.
The problem there is they haven’t got it fully figured out yet anyway. The fact that they are buffing 8 guns at a time is scary that it will be that slow to bring viability in to weapons…I believe this is in part due to annointments I tractions doing such crazy things makes balance insane.
Another reason to nerf annoints is due to the fact that skill trees and action skills are made pointless and just triggers for annointments. The top annoints are way too strong compare to most (you said it yourself there are too many trash annoints)
Now if you buff weapons to handle content without annoints … Then nerf annoints so they are a bonus (instead of 200% ASA or 125% element on ASE … you make these 20% ASA and 12.5% element ASE. You still have a reason to get annoints but your weapons you farmed are a trash pile without them. Then trash annoints become viable… 25% increase DMG/fire rate while sliding… Vs 12% element when ASE. It could be debated depending on build and content.
Wouldn’t it be better to get enemy health correct on a good state of the game instead of okay now and they will break it later anyway (like next dlc or event)
We are getting something closer to completed this week, and quite frankly it’s something that needs a touch up way more than guns do.
1 week. Just let this patch pass so everyone has options besides just guns. Just give GB space to finally get some kind of rein on these ■■■■■■ skills. I don’t think it’s asking for too much to give them space for this one patch to devote their attention solely to getting a handle on everything besides guns.
I have absolutely no confidence that whatever they do will fix anything. I have way more confidence that whatever they do with this is will make things even worse. It’s what’s been happening since launch.
So then why bother hoping for anything from the patch?
I’m not gonna tell anyone what to think about GB’s performance, but their track record on action skills, the few times they’ve actually given them some attention, has been pretty good. And that is what this week’s patch is for.
It’s not like there is a 100% chance they’ll get it perfect, but this is the first time since the game has released that they are giving anything close to a comprehensive review of how skills work. I really want them to put 100% of their focus towards it.
I’m not. I’m also not the one saying yet again that we should wait and see.
This hasn’t been SOP up until this point, why would it start now?