That’s a very good selection. Development is good at 400 stacks with Elemental Barrage so save it for the bigger enemies. A more functional explosive weapon aside from Nukem will really help you out in there. I normally use an explosive rifle to take out frozen enemies. Fatale gets a lot of kills for me too. One last thing I try to do to conserve ammo is throw Aspis on frozen enemies.
Thanks for the tip! I knew not to switch to the Development until I had high stacks but I wasn’t keeping track of Storm Weaving / swapping away from the Bullpup so that must be where my ammo issue came from. The Nukem saved my ass a few times but just barely, so maybe a Fragnum or a Mongol would be more effective.
Torgue grip, casual prefix
So continuing our earlier discussion regarding the influence of Unrelenting on fire rate breakpoints here, I also wanted to test out what difference, if any, is there between a purple Raging Storm (+5 Storm Weaving, +4 Unrelenting, +4 Flash Freeze) and a blue Raging Storm (+6 Storm Weaving, +5 Unrelenting).
With purple Raging Storm: 9/5 Storm Weaving (+67.5%) and 9/5 Unrelenting (+.54%/stack)
With blue Raging Storm: 10/5 Storm Weaving (+75%) and 10/5 Unrelenting (+.60%/stack)
At 100, 200, and 300 stacks they are identical in terms of actual fire rate gains. In other words they both achieve the same actual fire rate breakpoints at 6, 7.5, and 10 Fire Rate (FR) using the Practicable Thinking with 4.0 base FR. However, the key difference is in achieving the 15 and 30 actual FR caps.
With the purple Raging Storm 15 FR is achieved at 385 stacks (.54*385=207.9% increase):
Compare this to the blue Raging Storm that achieved this as 334 stacks.
Can the purple Raging Storm achieve 30 actual FR with the Practicable Thinking? Not on its own. I would need 1,079 Maelstrom stacks with Storm Weaving and Unrelenting active to hit 30 FR. But what if I factored in 9/5 Unrelenting at 999 Maelstrom stacks (+539.46%), my BAR (+8.7% fire rate), and the bonus from the Strafing Run Oz Kit (+34.6%)?
30/(RoundUP(30/(4.0*(1+.675+.087+.346+5.3946)))=30/RoundUP(30/(4.0*7.5026))=30/RoundUp(30/30.0104)=30/1=30 actual FR
So I’d have to be airborne to achieve that max number versus the 959 stacks needed with a blue Raging Storm. Speaking of the Strafing Run, at 0 stacks and with Storm Weaving active on either the purple or blue class mod you can immediately go from 6 to 7.5 actual FR just by jumping and shooting. How easy is that?
So remember Sljm’s conclusion?
If you want to hit 15 FR sooner and 30 FR with your feet on the ground, go with the blue Raging Storm. But purple Raging Storm is a great option too. It gives you the same fire rate performance for all but the high end of the fire rate caps while giving you more flexibility with points in Flash Freeze to use elsewhere if you like.
Surging gives more FR than Raging after 125 stacks, which is as easy as looking at the enemy in this spec. At 999, you have +59.94% from that point in Unrelenting, compared to +7.5% from that point being in Storm Weaving instead.
There’s not a real difference between +250% and +225% Effect Chance, in terms of stacks compared to the faster Fire Rate gains.
8 * 3.5 = 28
8 * 3.25 = 26
This is cool, I have completely overlooked Elemental barrage previously, never really bothered to see if it could be effective, now I can get max stacks on the sentinel using my quad barrell Hyperion shotties. Once I get my stacks up to about 600, I can just swap between two elemental shotties and keep my stacks from depleting, it’s cut my farming time down significantly, thank you.
@Sljm So with a blue Surging Storm then 15 FR at 315 stacks and 30 FR at 883 stacks versus Raging Storm’s 15 FR at 334 stacks and 30 FR at 959 stacks. Quite significant at the upper end.
@Nick_Infidel I’m glad it’s helped your farming. Storm Weaving+Elemental Barrage really is an amazing combination.
Do you run into issues with 4 player on this fighting for kill skills? It seems like if you miss a few kills do to your teammates beating you too it there could be major ammo issues.
I don’t run into a lot of issues but it’s not that dependent on Unrelenting for stacking purposes up to the 10-15 FR cap. Storm Weaving is enough to stack with but you aren’t going to see the very upper range of Maelstrom without Unrelenting active. A kill in the 300-400 range has the potential to carry you to max. But things die so quickly at that range anyways.
It’s my opinion that super stack counts is not reasonable nor practical for general content.
Such high stack counts are usually only achievable, let alone maintainable, in Boss scenarios.
Therefore, I recommend a Purple Raging for mobbing, and a blue Surging for bosses.
The former gives you more Storm Weaving, meaning it lets you get some Fire Rate without needing a kill or stacks. It gives Flash Freeze, letting you hold those stacks at a comfortable height.
The latter will give you the fastest stack generation against a boss that can soak lots of damage due to the immense advantage in FR.
Having these two Class Mods will let you switch between Mob and Boss mode without re-specing. I think this build will work nicely in both areas, given the right Class Mod variant.
Is there any way I can determine the influence of elemental effect chance and DoT on stack generation when factoring in point difference in Storm Weaving ?
What about the purple Surging Storm? Could it achieve the 30 fire rate cap without the Oz Kit and BAR? At high stacks, Unrelenting gives more than Storm Weaving.
@l_gabrielcruz Using a Practicable Thinking without BAR and Strafing Run 30 FR is possible with either a Blue Surging Storm (883 stacks) or Blue Raging Storm (959 stacks).
What are the ideal parts for your Shock Thinking shotgun?
Hyperion grip, Torgue or Hyperion stock is ideal. The Thinking I have is Jakobs grip, Bandit stock. In this case Practicable prefix is more important than parts because of the higher pellet count and fire rate.
New additions to the OP following some very helpful discussion:
- Added links to posts discussing fire rate
- Added two additional class mods, blue Surging Storm for boss build, purple Raging Storm for mob build
- Minor change to build: dropped Return Fire for Vanguard in both builds, and 1/5 Prepare for Glory (boss), 5/5 Prepare for Glory (mob)
Folks, do yourself a favor and go get a shock or incendiary Hail now that it’s been added to Iwajira’s loot pool. This is going to be one of the best Closers for Maelstrom stacking.
I already farmed up 3 hails