Well, not surrendering ruins the fun for me. It means I’m stuck in a match where I get to watch my team be completely destroyed instead of getting to move on to another match which may be more balanced and fun (win or lose).
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Again, there’s nothing to learn from a match where I’m constantly being attacked 2 or 3v1 by an enemy team that is simply dominant. I’ve learned a lot from playing the game, including losing matches, but in order to learn I actually have to be able to play. When I’m spending practically more time at base than in lane because the other team is so dominant, I’m not playing or learning.
This whole discussion does show me why people refuse to surrender even matches that we obviously should surrender though.
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Isn’t there something to learn here? Like, learning how to always check where are your teammates to be sure you’re not alone, and checking where are the opponent to move away quickly enough before being focused?
Just grow up and finish the match. If you’re getting beaten too badly too quickly then the game likely won’t take long to finish. Just play it out and let everybody enjoy it instead of ragequitting and putting everybody back into matchmaking. You’re not going to win every match. Just play the game.
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The real problem with surrenders? I don’t get bacon every time someone surrenders. Like seriously, WTF?! Where’s my bacon?
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I know it would with my Ghalt. I had to learn quick about 3v1’s with him cause unlike Montana or Issac he has ZERO escape tactics other than a trap and run in circles until activated. Now I know how to position myself better in those cases.
I think the problem is that people can miss, ignore or refuse the surrender, and the option’s locked for six more minutes. If a team votes down a surrender, that’s fine. At that point, they know they either need to step up their game, or someone’s going to ask again. But it’s easy in the current timeframe, to be too busy to take that pause mid fight, and pick one option or the other. I’d say that if a surrender isn’t flatly voted down, the option should remain unlocked. Give people a chance to make their intention’s clear, and it might end a bit of the rancor people who want to surrender have.
So what he would learn from that is what exactly? that even with his teammates they still focus 1 person and kills that person even if the team mates are together? that he see where they are but they are and have to run away and lose the match anyway?
When you’ve played a lot you know when your team has no chance of winning and losing teaches you nothing except to either feed, die as a team or be forced back to your sentry/spawn area.
And yes i had comebacks quite often but only when i knew it was doable, sometimes you just know you won’t do a comeback.
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If you ever have a game when your team is 2-3 levels down its time to quit.
I’ll add a further point here: What happens if the enemy team decides that instead of just crushing you, they want to FARM you for XP and credits? It’s not even that hard to do. Just don’t escort the minion wave. Let it get wiped out. Take the middle thrall camp, but don’t activate it, and leave it as a trap. Take the middle shards, though the turret’s probably optional, and then just wait for your team to come out over and over, and stomp them into the ground. Without the middle thrall camp, you can’t change momentum fast enough to reverse the play, and though you may be leveling via the minions, they’ll have all the shards and XP needed to fend you off and kill you.
How exactly do you stop being a farm animal, when your team couldn’t make a decent showing of it from start?
Maybe it’s because I’m older, but I’ve seen players who refuse to surrender for quite a while. I used to work in the AC casinos, and they’re no different than the gamblers who are just waiting for the one hand that will change everything. And yes, it DOES happen. Random chance is fickle. But more often than not, those players trying to beat the house end up selling THEIRS to pay their gambling debts. In a lot of games, the middle of the match is actually the end. Whoever comes out of that point in the game the strongest, rarely suffers such a reversal of fortune that they lose.
Characters in BB who are late starters, aren’t meant to sit and hide, doing little until they level up to where they’re a threat. They’re high-risk characters who force the enemy team to deny them as much as possible, to stall them out. But it’s very possible that the risk just doesn’t pay off at all. Not just for their players, but the entire team who can’t get them to that good time. Insisting then, that people should play on just because a late starter has yet to make an impact is meaningless. Again, no one character in the game, after hitting any single leveling point, is going to so wholly throw five OTHER characters out of whack that it will change the game.
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I’m afraid I cannot agree here. 100 hours of battleborn “earlier”, I was still thinking like you, that I “knew” when it was lost. And I thought that was because I had the experience to understand such situation. Like you right now. I since then learned that I was wrong.
You know most peoples that dive too much will be more careful if you take the time to nicely say to them that they’re giving xp to the other team so that they should p^lay more carefully to try staying alive. Talking to them about retreating and porting back, and the like.
Maybe you could try to do that next time you’re in this situation. Learning how to make your teammates follow your lead without being mistaken as someone wanting to give orders to other on how they should play (as this can also be easily misunderstood as such if you’re too direct).
I guess that’s one thing to learn and a good reason to not surrender :).
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I don’t mind losing but I’ll only surrender if we literally can’t do anything.
As in, moment I show up, instantly dog piled BH enemy team so I’m stuck at “spawndiespawndiespawndiespawndie” etc
Once I get a team to that point I go stand by there door and dance with them.
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Counterpoint: I was healing as a Miko, with two melees who kept sentry diving. The ISIC tank, called MY healing abilities into question, after I spent more time healing the melees and quickly getting out of danger, than healing him and the OM in the backfield. Even after venting over the comms about how I was healing two idiots that kept diving, even after yelling over and over “BACK OFF THAT FIGHT!!! IT’S 3V1 AND I’M HEALING YOU!!! YOU WON’T WIN!!” They STILL kept tower diving over and over till about ten minutes before the end of the match.
…but they wouldn’t take a surrender…
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Well sometimes you really should stop healing peoples who cannot be saved anyway.
Did you explain to them for example, the concept of feeding btw?
(I’m not convinced that yelling at them was the best way to convince them. Hence why I said “Learning how to make your teammates follow your lead without being mistaken as someone wanting to give orders to other on how they should play”).
Ummm, I shouldn’t have to yell in the first place. They should have gotten the hint, when I said “I’m not healing YOU, because I’m chasing after two melees constantly that are doing nothing but diving, dying and diving again.”
The presumption here, is that there are people who will listen in game with PUGs. There are ALWAYS people who know best, or want to act like they do, and won’t take advice. I’ve seen healers going after a thrall during teamfights around our own sentry. I’ve seen people shard farming, in favor of taking out the turret that kills them as they go for the big one in the middle. Why should people stick with those who refuse to listen or change their tactics? Who, effectlively, won’t work AS a team?
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Okay, as a FURTHER aside: what do I do when the player who’s tanking our team, doesn’t speak english? I’m from America. So far, I’ve gotten I believe German, Italian, Spanish, French, and I THINK Swedish or Icelandic players who don’t know what they’re doing. Why am I trying to fight through not just a skill barrier, but a language barrier as well?
I’ve tried plenty of time, i’m saying press B to get home and get full health they then proceed to stand next to the healing station that heals them slower and when i ask people not to dive in too much they get stubborn and dive even more.
there is the few times when it does work and i don’t surrender those but when people constantly ■■■■■ up i am going with surrender.
Exactly, There are a Lot of games i spend the first half building and ranking up, so my mid to late game is So more effective… I can not Count how many games that people have wanted to surrender as Soon as the first Sentry is down… and we come back and WIN… We may have lost our first sentry but we build a Solid defense, build up equipment and Rank… and Come back hard… I Really Hate whiners.
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I will never call a surrender.
I will vote for surrender under two conditions:
- We’ve lost two players (AFK or left)
- It looks like the majority of the team isn’t giving it their best effort (I’ve played enough to know when people have stopped trying, in my experience, this is pretty rare).
There have probably been 5 surrenders I’ve actually voted for based on this.
I learn how to play better by being over matched, seriously over matched sometimes. It doesn’t always feel good, but it’s nice to see the strategies / team compositions teams are using to crush me and my team.
It’s how I learned:
- To switch lanes when Toby is perched above the first grinder in meltdown (how and when to do it effectively).
- How to avoid the Ghalt team gank that pre-made teams often use.
- How to use white/free gear and shard collectors to turn the tide on “obviously stronger” teams by overwhelming them with buildables/Super Minions early game.
- How to hold lanes 2v1 or 3v1 as Thorn, when it’s clear I’m outmatched (answer: don’t fight to get your minions in, use aggressive positioning to kill theirs early and leave to help the other lane. It’s better to run with your XP between your tail than to die).
I’m even getting better at rallying or being sneaky when we’re being spawn trapped in Meltdown by a team who believes they’ve already won.
The point is that this is a game of strategy and tactics, and sometimes the only way to develop better strategies is to be stomped by them, or to be forced to develop them under massive pressure.
I volunteered as a Fencing coach for 12 years, I also fenced competitively for a very, long time at pretty high levels. If I learned one thing in all that time, it’s that people learn the most (in the long term) from competing in tournaments far above their level, as long as they go into it with the right attitude. Sure there is a hard limit to this (I wouldn’t send a first year to a World Cup event), but that limit is much higher than most people give credit for.
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