The saboteur and the experiment are too hard on advanced

I’ve poured a ton of hours into this game, yet so far I’ve only been able to beat the saboteur and experiment on advanced with one character: ISIC. ISIC is basically made for point defense missions, with his turret mode that can stay active forever.

Everyone else in these levels is at a major disadvantage. With “the experiment”, I only won on a team that had two ISICs.

It really seems like these levels are excessively hard on advanced, and impossible to beat unless you have a few specifically good characters for defending stationary targets. I actually beat Heliophage on advanced before I beat these two.

On top of that, the excessive point defense missions in the sabotuer really feel dumb. It’s called “The Saboteur”! It’s not called “The Protector”. The mission should be all about blowing stuff up, not protecting things.

I consider The Experiment to be easy on advanced. Like real easy.

But I agree that Saboteur is insane. Only beaten it twice on advanced. Scavens do too much damage and there’s too many enemies using ranged attacks on the last wave.

They gave the sentry on The Archive more health but he can be healed by the data bots and that level is super easy and boring (before the health buff). But they couldn’t up Nova’s health on that last wave in Saboteur??

I found the Experiment to be even harder then the saboteur. The main area you have to defend is much larger, and enemies come flying in from all directions. You also have to defend it from a mini-boss (the only time in the game you have to defend an object from a boss), and you have to defend it early on at a low level before your abilities are unlocked. If you do a lousy job there, but survive, you are still screwed, because you have to defend it later, and it doesn’t get any repairs from its prior damaged state.

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I can only speak for myself, but my very very first Advaced Mission was “The Saboteur” with 5 mates and we got Gold on first try… I did´nt even played very good, so, I cannot say these maps are too difficult from my perspective as casual gamer.
They are hard, really hard and challenging. I kinda like them because of that.

I don’t mind a challenge, but when you fail dozens of attempts and only succeed with the best character for that specific type of mission, it’s possible the difficulty is too hard.

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I have lost it twice from the mini boss and then one at the first wave.

There are a ton of enemies. I always set up the turrets and traps beforehand or as quick as possible because some people start the mission too early.

The two times I lost on the experiment was because my teammates would pull away from the defense cores and enemies would run past them, unnoticed.

AOE helps and a mix of ranged and melee characters.

I’ve played Galilea, Deande, Caldarius, Orendi, I think Benedict, and a couple others (on the experiment) but I can’t remember right now. I would need to check my career info.

Of course, never wanted to say its not difficult. Before they buffed Saboteur we tried about 12 times and always got defeated, without the healthbuff to the cores we´d still be cursing it.
Sometimes there are also very mean and nasty enemy-spawns, like 7 Veil Walkers at once - such things just make it nearly impossible to pull through.

:older_man:Kleese is a god in Renegade, Experiment, & Saboteur on advanced .

That is, if you know what your doing and how to use him effectively.

Actually, once I fully understood Kleese, I found every mission easier with him. He just has a very versatile set of skills.

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I gold medalled both those levels on my first try on advanced and I’ve only had the game for 2 weeks, but ISIC is my main so that must be why haha.

They aren’t really that hard as long as you don’t have 2+ characters on the team being dead weight expecting to be carried.

Marquis actually makes this level easier for me. If you use all five of his owls and go for crits with only 2 hits for the bonus damage it’s pretty fun.

Never tried a group of five on PvE Afraid of pubs haha

Sad but true. 3-man missions are always the best experience so far. I only had a few missions with 5 mates that went that smooth. The enemie spawns are just right with 3, it can get ridiciolous with 5 mates. Renegade can have the same issue of crazy spawns in the last defense station.

I have video footage of the Saboteur Gold Advanced on my Youtube/youtubegaming channel - It was a 5 man but dropped to 4.

Same Vid on my Youtube Gaming Page

These missions require a shift in tactical thinking in advanced. Consider grabbing and using shards for turrets/traps even in the first defense job. Bring a load out that will help you earn some shards to start with. Having a rocket turret or two can make all the difference until the characters have managed to level up.

I beat the Saboteur on advanced on my first try.
Oscar Mike playing alongside a Melka.

The real issue is that the way Mission Failure Screens are implemented does nothing for teaching you how you failed.

In Saboteur specifically, there is a lot of verticallty to the level that is easy to go unexplored paired with enemies that can jump to the middle and shoot from above, leaving anyone reacting to the spawns at a disadvantage (super frequent in pick up groups).
ISIC is a great character for Saboteur because he can afford to be more reactionary.
You can station him mid, next to the defend point, and let his shield soak up shots intended for Nova, while he can fire at any enemy with a line of sight.
This isn’t your only option, though.

Placing a high DPS character front and low, next to the large door, can go a long way for low to mid spawns.
Temporal Traps closest to the Core can help Nova not get nibbled on.
Getting the two Thumper Turrets active gives a lot of ranged automation.
Having a ranged character on the exposed Thumper Turret can protect it and fire Mid and Left Balcony
Constantly replacing Inferno Traps in the back of the room give enemies something to occupy themselves with while taking damage (they will be destroyed frequently).
Back is a good place for melee characters.

The real issue is that the way Mission Failure Screens are implemented does nothing for teaching you how you failed.

This. I’m finding the same problem on Heliophage, too. It seems like the same pitfalls in all 3 scenarios. Melee characters rushing in unsupported. They go down and everyone rushes in to revive them, since few people play with mics. Those revivers, well intended go down and the next thing you know the enemy has a clear shot at the objective because the whole party is down.