The Saboteur Has Issues

So many people hate the Saboteur, for good reason given that 3 people on advanced makes it impossible given how easily enemies can shred defend points.
(Can defend points HP please stack to enemy damage >3<)

But as much as gearbox needs to buff these defend points or atleast give us a way to heal them like we can with Wolf and No other “defend” thing in the game, but I’m not here to complain about the absurd difficulty despite that being an issue adding to my frustrations.

And I know people have been complaining about it already.

I’ve been grinding the Saboteur on advanced hardcore with Boldur (beat it 3 times in like 10 attempts, 5 of those deaths were not by my own fault and imma explain why)

So I just did a run where a jump pad flung me off:
(Screenshot of me falling to my death for no reason)

The Left jumppad in the area i was seems to have a tendency to fling people off, I know because this isn the first time i’ve seen it happen.

And then there’s the first boss, he’s Usually fairly easy, but for some reason (this doesnt happen all the time) he seems to have a GIANT collision box…Just randomly
And I’ll be pushed back, even when he’s doing that thing where he just stands still when the door opens for 20 seconds.

I cant get close to him, i can Still hit him, but it feels weird when i have no idea how close i can be to him with a melee character.

It’s like his collision box expanded to 2-3x its normals size while he’s just walking around being normal

It’s not lag either, I know because i kept checking my connection the first time it happened, i had no symptoms of lag, and it was only him (happening the majority of my tries)

First time that happened i died unsure of what was happening because it was just strange.

There are some other issues, But those are the 2 that annoy me the most…

Most of the moving parts in the Saboteur are already annoying enough given that you’re over sky bridges that lead to instant deaths.

Another ‘death’ was a general problem not particularly specific to this mission but when i was outside the final defend point i got knocked into a place i couldnt jump out of, i couldnt do anything i sat there trying to get out but I was just stuck and after a few minutes of jumping and trying to boost out with skills I just gave up and quit.
And my solution to that is, Gearbox, can we please get a “Press B to retreat to Checkpoints” thing like we do in PVP?
Like if im just glitched into an area and i can’t move My only option shouldnt be just quit and redo the mission.
I dont understand why there isnt a button for that already, sorry if there is, but i know it isnt B like it is in pvp x.x (I’m on pc)

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Try it with Kleese. I’ve done it advanced solo with Kleese, three-man with one Kleese, and four-man all Kleese for shiggles. Kleese is godly on defense missions.

It is possible without Kleese so long as you have a lot of AoE for wave clear such as Thorn, OM, or Orendi. I’ve run it on advanced with those three as well, no Kleese and no healer, it’s doable just difficult and so it should be given it’s the penultimate mission. Always but the turrets and traps as well, thumper turrets and flash or temporal traps, and buy a repair drone to keep them healthy or a temporal drone to slow enemies approaching the core. I haven’t failed it since the buff to defense point health, before then it was almost impossible with three players but now it’s passable with the right characters and tactics.

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Yeah I like kleese, I actually have his lore done (Somehow, damn that kill 500 enemies with his worthless ult >~>), but point is I think that’d be good, i was hoping to grind Boldurs lore though, and he’s pretty fun to play in pve.

But You’re misunderstanding my problems, I dont think you read the op.
I’m not having much “difficulty” per say, but i’ve gotten a LOT of cheap deaths.
The cheapest death that wasn’t due to the game itself screwing me over was a varelsi disruptor doing that ground spike thing.

But again you’re just giving me general tips for the mission, I’m not complaining about the difficulty even though i do say thats a big issue, I’m complaining about some glitches and issues with the mission itself i noticed.

…The left one is bugged, I stopped using it.

As for 3 person teams, your team just needs to be more comfortable with it, I can give tips if you want.
(Have 57 Gold’s on that map, all Advanced)

I use different jump pads every time I play and I have yet to have any of these things happen to me. The only possible reason I can surmise that that maybe some bit of lag while in the air causes a loss of synchronization between client and server with the server reverting your position but the client using the velocity for the position it thought it was in before resync. The end result would have your character fall short.

Still, it’s basically a packet loss/desync issue, which a network problem as opposed to an actual bug. It could be “fixed” by changing where the game defaults you position to after losing sync while in the air after hitting a jump pad, but I’m not sure about the ease/feasibility of that.

Rough? Yes. But nowhere close to impossible. Did 5-man advanced just last night.

The problem with The Saboteur is the level design itself. Specifically the sheer number of spawn points in that room, along with the lack of traps and turrets. Why does it lack those? That’s because the prior defend point stole all of them, making the players feel almost useless there.

As I’ve said elsewhere, if they’re actually playing PvE I just don’t see how they could have droppedt he ball that hard. I just don’t think that they are, nor do they have a QE team playing PvE to figure out what hte problems are. I think that the team behind Battleborn are divided between ‘we have to supply PvE because we sold it to people for money’ and ‘we sure wish everyone would forget PvE existed!’

PvE is so ridiculously neglected at this point that every PvE player I’ve spoken with feels like a second class citizen.

It’s not a good feeling.

It’s definitely a problematic mission. With it being in the middle of such a large area and with pretty much every enemy in the game – even melee enemies – having melee attacks, there’s only so much you can do to keep enemies from damaging the defense point. The last defense section pretty much comes down to luck.

There’s also an issue with the jump pads at one point, I think just before the shards bit before the second defense chapter. The other day a friend of mine kept getting flung off the edge while trying to cross. Once I went over and actually did land, a Varelsi put a bubble over me, and when my three or four teammates tried to lift across they landed on top of it and slid off the map.

Kleese is OP for story. Also there’s a bug where the one Varelsi bosses CC clouds your screen pemanently. I’ve had to die a few times to clear it. I no longer play close up Kleese.

Also, if there is no Kleese on Renegade or Saboteur, I feel pressured to play one. So much where if someone doesn’t choose it, I accept a loss.

I’ve never had a Kleese on Renegade and I’ve got gold on it on every mode. I will say Kleese definitely makes Saboteur Advanced/Advanced+Hard Core way easier, but I’ve still soloed it as other characters.

I think it takes quite a bit of familiarity with Saboteur and a bunch of shards to keep rebuilding turrets in the last room. Yes its hard, but using your circle attack to corral guys/interrupt them as you are waiting for your AOE cooldown has been very effective for me.

What’s more, I like the fact the final two missions (Saboteur + Heliophage) are a bit more difficult than the rest. I wasn’t able to do these things easily until I’d done them half a dozen times and knew where everything was, what enemies spawn, etc.

The Saboteur itself is a very poorly optimized map. Any area “outside” can drop basically all of the frames because you looked at something wrong. Friends have needed to look down at the floor unless 100% needed to look up just so they can walk into the first defend point. And there are definitely jump pads and spawns that are not great. And when a jump pad does launch you off the map or something happens and you don’t land in the right spot causing you to fall to your death, the game decides, “Hey, you jumped from here, so that is where we will put you back. Hope someone stayed behind to revibe you.” Terrible in hardcore.

Best thing to do right now, is to get a screenshot of the area the issue happened and report it. Gearbox is looking for these sorts of things, and they say these are usually easy fixes and can be done quickly. There has been a thread asking for the same sort of functionality you are asking for, just for these such of occasions. Though there are people who are worried, and rightfully so, about others that will abuse this power, use it to troll poeple, or a reduction in reports meaning those areas might not get fixed.

yeah, I’m running a GTX980 so i dont get that problem but literally everyone i play with there has issues with insane fram drops Only on that mission.

which is a shame because one guy in particular i grinded for the boots legendary dropped by Grall, since he mains Rath and they looked usful for a rath build, so he Hated how hard that mission was and how he got absurd frame drops

I think you can get ‘unstuck’ if you log out of the map and come back quickly enough.

But yeah, the Saboteur is a terrible map designed by terrible people. The bridge design is cool but doesn’t mesh too well with all the enemies with huge knockback in this game. Ranged enemies can attack the defend point from difficult to reach areas (the pipes in the first defend point, every balcony in the last one). Plus all the technical issues, like FPS drops during the beginning and a bunch of other areas that have not been resolved since launch.

I wouldn’t say that they’re terrible people. I believe that one of the devs said that they released Saboteur without enough testing because they were pushing for their release date. It’s been one of the most heavily tweaked missions in the game.

As to the bad design, I will agree with everything. The bridge sucks because knockback is so prevalent with so many enemies (I was demolishing a group of enemies as Rath when a double Bonecrusher spawn happened; while at full health and killing everything, both of them used their knockup on me, catapulting me off the side).

The final defense sucks because it is incredibly onerous to get up to the top (for melee, you’re basically taking yourself out of the fight for a minute as you run up there, kill a single enemy, and then get back down) but absolutely required because those enemies will just spam ranged attacks and kill the node if you don’t. At the very least, there should be a jump pad near the node itself to catapult people up to the terrace without forcing them to run all the way around to places where no enemies spawn, much less congregate.

It is a very poorly implemented mission, but I don’t think it’s entirely the fault of the developers. It wasn’t tested enough and was pushed out early. I believe they’re at least considering tweaking it, given the ridiculous failure rate, but I might be wrong.

Honestly, I’d like them to change all of the node defense/escort missions so that, if a node/escort dies, it consumes a life in order to heal it up a bit (like 25%) rather than simply ending the mission altogether. You can be doing absolutely amazing, with 10 lives saved up because no one in the group ever dies and still fail because a bunch of Brutes spawned and decided to all fire grenades at the node.

Part of the problem is also that at the final defense point the node i in the middle of the room with enemies spawning on every side. If it was against the wall like the second node it’d be easier to stand in front of it and attack out, but the layout of the room makes it impossible.