The Strongest Lifestealer in the game ATM

I’ve been tinkering with a way to use Beatrix and I must say none of the Jennerit can even compare to her Lifesteal, Patient Zero’s Leech Therapy, Bloodshot, Anticoagulant and her legendary gear give her 60% on her Incistyx Injector and 110% on her off hand melee, she literally sucks the life out of you, couple with Double Dose you’ll have 14 more shot that will hit any enemy IF you standard shot hits a target, then you have self-medicated which assure you that you’ll always have Patient Zero on you and your target, then give her Lenore Laments and gives her 8% more lifesteal than she already has plus giving her skills Lifesteal( Counting Infection) you’ll be literally healing of on anything.

This is awesome but then as a Rath main, she blows him away in Lifesteal to the point that you can’t be mad and you’ll want one on everytime on you team, which means that even in the aspect that he’s supposed to be the best, he’s a complete joke to her, but that aside since I don’t want to bring Rath into a Beatrix, I guess I just wanna share this because it’s just crazy how much you heal.

1 Like

I don’t know the exact parameters you’re using to really compare them, but I’d say almost anyone with lifesteal beats Rath after his multiple Dreadwind nerfs. Pendles, Deande, even Orendi will blow him away in that regard. From what I’ve experienced and seen he’s basically just a walking AoE knock up anymore.

But if we’re talking about burst lifesteal, then I’d say Attikus would give her a run for her money.

Plus percentages are only worth as much as the damage they have backing them. So Rath hitting 4 minions with one melee swipe and Beatrix only hitting one helps to even the numbers. Along with attack speed/dps, etc, etc…

(P.S. You can put a Patient Zero on a Rath too.)

Rath’s life steal is fine because like @khimerakiller said, he can hit several things at once with it. With Swordsman’s Salve he can restore massive bursts of his health by hitting an entire minion wave at once with his melee. People really need to stop comparing Rath’s life steal to others because with the exception of Attikus in ult, he hits so much more with his attacks/skills. Beatrix is almost entirely single target damage whereas Rath should be hitting multiple things at once with just about everything he does.

I take some offence at that, but at the same time I understand why you would say that. Most Rath players didn’t adapt to Dreadwind nerfs and don’t see him for his full potential.

I know that but Rath without Bea he can’t reach that high, Bea without Rath can still reach that high, also Double Dose when you hit and enemy spawns a guided shot to hit a nearby enemy, which means you’ll be hitting multiple enemies while also inflicting infection, like with this you can clear waves with ease and from afar, also while being scoped the dmg of the guided shot is the same a scoped shot.

I’m not really here to compare perse, It just crazy the amount of lifesteal she gets and i’m using Rath as a reference since he’s the vanguard of lifesteal so don’t worry @blainebrossart1, All Rath compliants will be on the Rath thread.

Truth be told I never really liked Rath since I reached command rank 12 in the Beta, and I still don’t. I have some strong opinions about him in regards to PvE and PvP, but I’ll mostly keep them to myself.

Also Waveform Smash is the new meta I’ve been seeing, but it causes you to cough up your finisher helix for Crossblade. Add in his lackluster ult and you can see how I view him as the same one trick pony he’s always been, but just with a different skill this time. I’m not trying to offend you by talking down your character, it’s just that you have to remember I set the bar waaay higher for battleborn and Rath is very basic, but IMO in a bad way unlike OM.

If the OP is fine with it, I’d be cool with ranting my opinons about Rath if you want.


Actually DD only inflicts the wound from Infection and not the DoT, unless the recently hotfixed it.

DD always does the damage of a hip-fire shot regardless of whether you’re hip-fireing or scoped in.

  • Trust me I know how powerful Beatrix is. I was just talking about other things to consider when you compare various lifesteals. But seriously Attikus probably beats her in terms of burst lifesteal.

To each their own, but I feel Rath isn’t a one trick pony and I would be more than happy to discuss this with you. I’ve changed more than one person’s mind about Rath. PM me if Aku doesn’t give us the go to talk about it. (might take me a while to respond. doing diamond runs with some friends)

1 Like

Rath is not a one trick pony. He’s a multiple tricks pony!

He is squishy and thus rely on the support of his teamates but he fits various roles in his team. Assasin, Interrupter, push supporter, teammate saver, CC follow up supporter… yeah, I made up the name of some of those roles but you get the point!

His combos can be diverse on the usage of his skills. The common combos are to start with:

CM follow by CB and then normal melee attacks
CM + Ultimate

My favorite is to double jump, specially if I am getting closer to a ranged characters (as this approach tend to make them miss their shots), do a little melee, follow by CM, single or double jump to melee them while their are in the air and when they try to escape CB .

You can even start or finish combos with the secondary melee attack. This character is a lot of fun and has a lot of potential to do amazing competitively.

1 Like

“CC support” fill most of those roles you made up.

1 Like

I’ll take the silence as an A-OK. I’ll hopefully get around to posting my thoughts on Rath sometime later today.

2 Likes

@blainebrossart1 @RayLightning I know it’s taking a while, but life gets in the way and I’m being very thorough. You can mull over my thoughts on his primary in PvE while you wait for a bit.


##PvE

  • Primary
  • I really like his primary combo for how forgiving it is and how easily it connects with multiple targets. Very basic, but in this case I prefer better usability and utility over making something unique but a pain to use.
  • Add in his extremely fast attack speed and one of, if not the largest base melee hit box in the game and you get a top tier melee combo. (Plus crits are easy to land)
  • But that is it for what I like about his primary. After that his DPS is too low for what he’ll be asked to do. All it can effectively do is kill small fry, but everyone can more or less do that. He has no bossing potential and he struggles even with upper mid-tier enemies, along with everything in between. This is more than likely because his primary is too easy to use to warrant a higher DPS, and because his crappy Talent detracted from him potentially having better helices for damage increases (And some of those should have been part of his base kit to start with, but so are the woes of being the first “born” melee character of this game).
  • His primary (and secondary) also offers no extra utility after level one to make the lowered damage more worth it. The slow on 7 is useless and a cut-and-dry inferior option in PvE. He doesn’t have Galilea’s IDtGA to give him ranged damage, El Dragon’s clap wave to do the same, Phoebe’s Blade Sweep that gives her a better melee hit box and it bypasses Brute shields/old guardian hit boxes, Boldur’s ability to sprint while blocking, etc… These aren’t directly comparable, but I hope you get the point.
  • And lastly it’s poor visual feedback. It’s hard to track his blades as you’re hitting something, causing a placebo effect that makes his already low DPS feel even lower. Add in the wimpy sound effects and it only gets worse. Compared to others like El Dragon where I can easily track his fist and the clang of metal on metal feels rewarding. Or Galilea where I watch a cool looking sword for hours along with the effect trail produced by her combo finisher, and topped off with the whoosh of IDtGA as purple bolts fly out of my sword. This part was more opinionated, but the “feel” of something is a big thing to humans and I probably value it more than most.
2 Likes

Alright, delayed response but [quote=“khimerakiller, post:10, topic:1556445”]
life gets in the way
[/quote]

^ I’ve been getting a lot of this in the past few days.


I would agree with this but some of the PC players recently discovered that you can increase Rath’s DPS by using his secondary mid combo for what is called “Spin Cancelling”. Going 1-2 then secondary. It gives up the spin on his combo but gives a respectable increase to DPS. He still struggles with bosses but he can definitely take down Brutes, Evolved thrall, or Hunters. With this combo, it makes taking S2W useless so you can take Terror from Above in PvE and get an easier time with head shots on brutes and lets you jump over the explosion radius on grenades. [quote=“khimerakiller, post:10, topic:1556445”]
His primary (and secondary) also offers no extra utility after level one to make the lowered damage more worth it. The slow on 7 is useless and a cut-and-dry inferior option in PvE. He doesn’t have Galilea’s IDtGA to give him ranged damage, El Dragon’s clap wave to do the same, Phoebe’s Blade Sweep that gives her a better melee hit box and it bypasses Brute shields/old guardian hit boxes, Boldur’s ability to sprint while blocking, etc… These aren’t directly comparable, but I hope you get the point.
[/quote]

This is a fair point, a lot of Rath’s helixes are just numerical values or something similar, making him better at what he already does instead of letting him do more. I will say that I like his secondary in PvE just for hitting more enemies at once for better use of his life steal.[quote=“khimerakiller, post:10, topic:1556445”]
And lastly it’s poor visual feedback. It’s hard to track his blades as you’re hitting something, causing a placebo effect that makes his already low DPS feel even lower. Add in the wimpy sound effects and it only gets worse. Compared to others like El Dragon where I can easily track his fist and the clang of metal on metal feels rewarding. Or Galilea where I watch a cool looking sword for hours along with the effect trail produced by her combo finisher, and topped off with the whoosh of IDtGA as purple bolts fly out of my sword. This part was more opinionated, but the “feel” of something is a big thing to humans and I probably value it more than most.
[/quote]

This one is just a matter of personal preference. I get a lot of satisfaction from timing Rath’s spin cancelling because I’m not just holding down a button (or in Phoebe’s case 2) for maximum damage output, I’m timing every combo perfectly and it keeps me involved.

In general, I very much enjoy playing Rath in PvE. I like managing his life steal to keep me in the fight and I feel that his lower DPS potential is not that bad because of the fact that he’s healing himself constantly and staying in something’s face much longer.

1 Like