The Walking Dead & Fear TWD

Eh, I disagree. Yea it could have been summed up in 10 minutes and I was honestly getting annoyed with it at first. But that feeling disappeared quick and I don’t remember where I forgot about being annoyed. Therefore, they did it perfect.
I enjoyed it a lot. A+ episode to me.

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Yeah I loved it as well I think they needed that time to show who began is and watching him break Rick was something we have yet to see anyone do or even come close to

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Yes! I was right! I’m happy and upset at the same time.

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John Oliver is on in a few, but I promise to write out my reasoning tomorrow brethren.

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Same here. It was a good episode but you know.

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I liked it as well. I feel that if there was one moment in the story that really needed to revel in misery and hopelessness it was this moment. They couldn’t shy away from it or try to lighten it up somehow. And they definitely didn’t. One thing is certain… I’ll never say the producers lack courage again. Although they did the ol’ bait and switch again when they teased finally cutting off Rick’s hand but backed out of it at the last minute. I kinda forgive that though, as it was justified by the plot. This episode wasn’t about just the killing of major characters, it was about the breaking and humbling of Rick Grimes. And that takes a lot. I don’t think we ever saw Rick in such a low state in seven seasons. The episode did what it was supposed to do. Break Rick and the audience beyond repair. If the audience isn’t afraid of watching a new episode, they’re doing it wrong. They finally had the balls to actually do just that and prove that the “no one’s safe” motto is actually true.

However, I will say this: After they resolve the Negan/Saviors storyline, they need to bring some honest to God hope into these people’s lives, even if just for a while, and they can’t take all of it away completely later. Just to balance it out a bit. I feel that will come when Glenn and Maggie’s baby is born.

I also wanna mention that Greg Nicotero once again brought his A game. More than any other episode before it, this one felt like a Romero zombie movie from the 80’s. Specially the slightly surreal feeling in the “RV in the mist” scenes. I’ll say it again… Nicotero for showrunner. Just do it.

Now, concerning my previous post about the cliffhanger ending from last season… Scratch that. I misinterpreted the spoilers I read. They were correct about who got the bat, but I thought most of the episode would be set after the fact, showing the group going on with their lives after the killing and slowly showing all the characters in the line up one by one as still living. Then that would be revealed to be just a fantasy of Rick as they would cut back to the line up scene and we would see the killings. I don’t know why I conjured all of that up from so little information. Yeah, in the end what they did was actually better… But last season’s cliffhanger ending is still unforgivable.

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It really was. And honestly, that is what hurt me the most. Even more than losing Glenn and Abe.
Seeing Rick submit like an abused dog to its master just…Wrecked me something fierce…
Again, they did this entire episode supurbly.

Absolutely. That was certainly the saddest, most emotional part of the episode. That was the actual point of the episode and it was masterfully executed. Everything was shown through Rick’s point of view. That’s the reason they had to extend it to the point of being almost unbearable. It was a moment of forced transformation for Rick and we went along for the ride every step of the way. Glenn’s death was highly emotional as well, but actually because of Maggie and not because of the brutality of the beating. Abe, though? I liked the character and he really did go out like champ, but I didn’t feel a thing.

By the way, even though it was kinda cheap, the “double whammy” twist was actually clever. They managed to surprise the people who had already read the comics without actually changing it.

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That’s a score of 1-4 so far, Giu. Definitely interested to hear a point of view from the other side of the fence there when you can!

My wife was pissed when I was cheering after Glenn got the bat. I tried to tell her I was cheering because the moment was like the comics, not because Glenn died, I loved Glenn. She wasn’t having any of it though.

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Perfect episode. If Kirkman could rewrite it in the comic, it would happen just like in the show. Maybe that’s how he pictured it in the first place (Rick breaking while thinking about what would happen to the others), but it couldn’t be translated into drawings.

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Oh and JDM was brilliant. He really got into Negan’s skin, despite the lack of f***s.

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I was going to ask you what you thought about that but no need now.

Deserves Golden Globe for the last episode.

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[spoiler]Good episode, poor choice in who got the bat. Glenn should have been dead half a season ago and as cool as Abraham was I just didn’t really care about him. They also tried to do what I felt was a fake out of Daryl possibly being killed after he threw that punch, but we all know they’re never gonna kill their golden goose. The only reason anything even registered on my feels-a-meter during the whole thing was because they naturally milked Glenn’s death for as much as they could by showing him as a bumbling disfigured mess for a minute or so. Jumping ahead, I feel the same way about the “Carl might lose an arm” scene as I did about the whole episode. Whole lot of build-up for nothing. The entire scene I was really hoping they would go through with it, especially after reading an interview with the showrunner where he basically said the “Rick loses an arm” storyline was plausible at this point from a special effects and prosthetics standpoint. It would also have been a really neat twist on the comics. But nope, they disappointed me as usual.

Those complaints aside, the “Go get my axe!” scenes were really well done and probably one of my favorite WD scenes of all time. [/spoiler]

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You know, I see my mod-brethren and many of my favorite posters on here in avid disagreement with me, and I feel very much like I am going to be the only one on this side of the fence.

But, I eat bottarga as a desert, so I’m a generally weird person.

If this were the supreme court I am very much on the ‘dissenting opinion side’. But I’d ask you all hear me out and consider my points.

[spoiler]I am genuinely having difficulty starting off from what I liked least, because to me it all ended up being a jumbled mess of catch up.

The episode begins ‘in medias res’ for essentially no reason whatsoever. It is done so to further draw out what everyone has been waiting 6 months for. I repeat, 6 months. The show runners began their list of mistakes last year, where they relied on a cliffhanger to show a certain death. You are not elongating the wait, you’re in essence preparing the audience for any possibility what so ever. I’ve often heard that the weakest literary tool for character transformation is death, and this isn’t a new fact. One of the revolutionary ideas behind ‘Oedipus Rex’ during its inception was creating circumstances more harrowing than death itself. Now you may argue that this was the case from Rick’s perspective, but none of this was originally slated as such. The billboards were slated in a nearly pulp-novelesque pan shot of Negan wielding Lucille with slogans which pretty much wrote out “well who gon get it now!”

Is that what this has devolved to?

I think many of the explanations as to the significance are often after-the-fact implantation of originally non-existing subtext. The show runners on Talking Dead kept harping on about how this the first time we 'see Rick break, but is that what you’ve been hearing from everyone? No, you’ve been hearing; “Who gets it.”

Dramatic effect is established by way of proper continuity, and the entirety of the last season had the continuity of a square bowling ball. The last episode of season 6 was painfully staccato, as it rang longer than Marcus Antonius’ funeral speech for Julius Caesar by roughly 2 hours. Then, do we see who dies? No, we’re left in comic book suspense.

And that is all it was, comic book suspense.

Source material is grand, but it shouldn’t affect the medium in question in an unnatural way. What translates well in a comicbook doesn’t necessarily translate well on the screen, and this doesn’t.

I would compare it to this. Imagine if there were to be a film about Borderlands and 30 minutes of the film involved Roland and Brick looking through red chests until they found a gun with slightly better parts.

I love the Iliad, but I’d be put right off if a film about it involved the 10 minute verbal introductions to minor characters.

2 hours of panning to establish 2 deaths and a ‘breaking’ is not good television, it is an art form that has been mastered decades ago by Japanese Gameshows, blurring out the result around a sea of adverts and making you wait until the commercial break to find out how the Card trick finishes.

In all honesty, this is gore porn.

I was hugely critical of Game of Thrones, but in comparison to this, my issues with Game of Thrones were thumb tacks in the road in comparison to this anti-tank caltrop.

I was more affected by the death of Rodrik Cassel than I was by Glenn. All the 'Ma-Maaagiiieee" In the world lacked any poise in it’s execution, because the clear homage to brutality only affects those who see that as the linchpin.

He turns to his wards with a blade over his neck and whispers;

“Hush now, child. I’m off to see your father.” In two lines. TWO BLOODY LINES. They bring a mix of emotions of the boys losing their adoptive guardian in some senses, and their father. They establish his significance and the brutality of the action, they show the escape of Theon’s innocence and his betrayal, as well as showing how a dim bat like Dagmar has the ability to influence Theon.

Two lines.

2 bloody hours and I was getting the point where I would’ve personally cracked Glenn over the skull to shut Negan up. And what is most depressing is the cast really are talented actors. I like em. Vast majority of them.

And they’re more or less forcing Jeffrey Dean Morgan, a talented man in his own right, to push it to the boundary of overacting. The “go get the axe” scene, wasn’t seamless. It was a gentle reminder in all of this that; “Hey folks, ya’ll remember the zombies?”

I would put it forward to you, that once again, The Last of Us, a video game, is an almost immeasurably better apocalypse story than The Walking Dead.

And it didn’t need to be, but the Walking Dead is fast becoming the WWE. It is no longer about conciseness or plotline so much as it is about keeping this cash cow alive for next week, amping up the next event so that you’d have to watch it to ‘know what happened’, as opposed to caring about what happened.

Now, I won’t be negative the WHOLE TIME.

Abraham’s final moments were very well written in my opinion, they made certain to kill him as he lived. That is good writing, I’d say the same for Glenn’s to be frank.

The acting on the show is really grand. That kind Chandler Riggs is way more talented than people give him credit for, and I’m not even going to go in to the top notch acting of the likes of Andy or Norman. The cast has some brilliant cohesion, and the show does now how to introduce new personages. Honestly, they’re now running this show as a business. I respect that, I wish them the best, but that isn’t going to get my viewership. If it weren’t for my two mates and the Missus putting the show on last night, I doubt I would’ve watched it. But they did provide the Je Suis VSOP and the Beers, so I had to shut up.
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Now to respond to specific parts.

I feel you Jo, and I feel as there were plenty of ways to save the episode. I just started caring less and less by the second. I swear, my friend and I kept joking around about how much like a Japanese talk/game show it was. With pans back and forth, and even the teasers about the episode.

That shot down the immersion right quick for me.

Think of the Red Wedding, you’re lulled in to a false sense of security and then all of a sudden;

Rains of Castamere plays, Bolton is wearing chainmail.

That is build up, it is what it is. No need to dance around the point.

As I stated, I think that is the gilding over what the episode was meant to be. The reaction to a live action snuff film as viewed by the most captive audience in human history. He has momentarily shattered Rick’s will to fight. Rick was done for. For that moment. There isn’t a man alive who doesn’t suspect he’s going to go yippee-ki-yay in one years time. He is just momentarily routed.

Just like how he was after he killed Shane.

Just like how he was after Lori died where we saw “Farmer-Monk Rick sees ghost for 6 episodes”, just like how he was when he a Coooooral, first escaped from the prison.

The only truly unique part about this ‘breaking’ was the fact that it was a specific person doing it in that specific instance and he had to beg. Nothing unique in the character range, just an incredibly specific definition of an action.

At this moment I’m still confused as to why Negan doesn’t kill rick. Alexandria’s resources are intact, and if he is so great at breaking people, why wouldn’t he just go ahead and break the FAR more malleable souls of Alexandria.

He wants “Rick to work for him” isn’t such a great excuse either. Because kidnapping Carl would’ve been 10 times more effective for that. Yet he doesn’t. Because I’ve been told that ‘Rick wouldn’t go for that’, but bashing the brains of his best and closest friends is some how more efficient?

I really don’t get what they’re trying to do with the character of Negan. I can speak to most fans of the comic book and I am presented with a nearly peculiar duality in it. When I ask; “How does he know to do that?” I get; “Negan is a mastermind”. But when I then ask; “Well why doesn’t he do this?” I get; “Negan is a thug at heart!” There is a huge disconnect as to how Negan is set up as a character, and it is way too Saturday morning villain for me.

I think that might be one of the reasons I am in the disconnected crowd. 6 months of being offered no reason to care about Rick Grimes. I am then transported in the world with nearly little link to it with the exception of fleeting moments.

Good writing establishes a connection you once had with a character right before depriving you of them, that establishing factor was no way arranged in this episode. I feel like there may have been an effect if 90% of the episode established this moment in a way which re-qualified the characters.

I am a lonely man here in Giuville. :frowning:

I was drawn to the character at first. Really I was. He has this attitude to him which makes you despise his arrogance. Kind of like what I liked about Donald Sutherland’s portrayal of President Snow.

But it got so tiring so quick. If he talked any further before doing an action I would’ve expected Prince Vegeta to land across the way from him and begin powering up.

My very unpopular conclusion is I am finally putting this show in the “Lost” category, so much lost potential. I don’t mourn for Glen or Abraham, I mourn for diluted direction of the show. It’s cashed in and now amounts to nothing more than gore porn. And what annoys me about that is it really didn’t need to.

Few days back I was watching CNN and they showed a video I couldn’t believe. It was during the fight for Mosul and some one attempts a suicide bombing and fails miserably, managing to get only themselves in the blast. There were flying limbs. I remember the little boy with the blood trickling from his head. As well as the body of the young boy in the Turkish coastline. That isn’t even to bring up the things I saw while checking through case files ages ago.

The brutality of that episode is a minor glimpse in to a world that is all to true for many, and all the gore in the world wouldn’t have made me raise an eyebrow (no pun intended there). It lacks the weight of good writing against the paradigm of reality. The issue with violence is the more we’re exposed to it, the more it is diluted.

Hope, is different. The slightest glimmer in even the worst circumstances is an incredibly daunting task for any writer as they’re forced to connect on a level which goes far and beyond prevalent truths. You need to seek within so many hearts and sees what drives them forward. We need only mirror reality to see despair, but we must alter the very stitches and move the fabric in order to expose hope.

I’ll leave you all with Ammon’s quote from Clash of the Titan’s;

“I was partial to tragedy in my youth. That was before experience taught me that life was tragical enough without my having to write about it.”

P.S. We can rename this thread to; “Giu incrementally becomes the most hated person on the forum”.

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Hey. You are justified in your opinion. You didnt like it. No ones going to hate you for it.
Thanks for writing it out.


Here’s a little thing I found that Game of Thrones fans would understand.

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AMC is making 42 minute average episodes last 1 hour because of commercials. It’s irritating, specially in episodes with so much expectation. It taints the whole thing.

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