The writing is ruining the experience

As well as Dahl employees - engineers, scientists (semi-quoting Tannis from the Mine Cart Mischief mission in BL2).

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I played BL2 and TPS again before BL3 came out and there were a lot of LGBT characters in those games too though (it’s probably mentioned more in those games than BL3 actually). It just seems like people are more sensitive to stuff like that recently, everything seems to be pushing an “agenda” these days according to some folks. But then we have people complaining about a lack of diversity in BL3 earlier in the thread so the devs can’t win really. :confused:

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Its just more funny to sit back and watch tbh I felt b2 had less than 3 and was more subtle than three I feel 3s writers while not bad kinda don’t do subtly well in general and that’s with every thing mind you

Yeah, there have always been a lot of LGBTQ characters in Borderlands.

Moxxi is bi.
Mr. Shank is bi and Chaz is either bi or gay.
Torgue is bi.
Axton is bi.
Tiny Tina is bi.
Hammerlock is gay.
Motor Momma is lesbian or bi.
Janey Sparks is lesbian and Athena is bi or lesbian.
There are the audio files at Wildlife Exploration about how a guy’s husband has the skull shivers.

And there are others I can’t remember. Borderlands has always been inclusive. I like that about the series.

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I’m not emphasizing on him being gay. I’m perfectly fine with it as long as its meaningful to the story. And in 3 it is. This is relevant to all character threads not just their sexuality.

At the risk of being divisive, I totally disagree here. I’ve liked the way Borderlands has handled gay/bi characters in the past - and I am all for the inclusion, but this relationship specifically felt way over-emphasized to an unnatural level to me. It felt like any scene that involved them had to involve a lovers quarrel, them calling each other pet names, them holding hands, ECHOs with Hammerlock professing his love to Wainwright, and now an entire DLC dedicated to their relationship with an exaggerated romantic pose slapped right on the cover. It feels very much like the fact that they are gay is a “thing” and their defining trait considering they have to keep emphasizing it constantly, and I have a hard time believing that a straight relationship would have been written with such a lack of subtlety.

I can’t speak for any member of the LBGTQ community, but I feel like making a spectacle of a character’s sexuality would bother me almost as much as the lack of inclusion. Could be wrong though.

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100% agree. Subtlety and nuance are totally lost in BL3.

Disagree.

I think the fact that they are a couple in love is the “thing”. That they are gay is not overemphasized, and they are not stereotypes of some gay cliche.

I don’t think anything you listed is making their sexual preference a “spectacle.” I mean, replace either of them with a woman, and we wouldn’t think it overwrought , would we?

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Actually, I probably would. The game wants to remind you every chance it gets that they are in a relationship and heavily emphasizes it to what I personally felt is a bizarre degree. I don’t buy this would have happened if it’s just something like Moxy dating Torgue. That probably would have just been a throwaway comment with a bunch of sex jokes attached. But with these writers, I could be wrong.

I’m speaking from story perspective. When you create a character every single thread matter. For example Is it a he or a she, does he/she have scars or not. If you make a character gay, bi, trans or straight ask yourself does that really matter in the overall plot. Does it affect the plot in some way, and if not just don’t bother including it and focus on other things.

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This I agree with.

Well, I obviously can’t speak for the DLC, as it is not out yet, but…

I don’t see Hammerlock and Wainright’s relationship as that different from Lilith and Roland’s in BL2. They were an established couple, you had to rescue one of them, and there were several echos as well as the quest sender (Lilith, Wainright) encouraging you to rescue them.

The relationships between Rhys and Sasha and Athena and Janey also have a similar level of build to them, as they are becoming more established. (In Tales from the Borderlands).

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I think my only problem with some of the lines including the tapes we find is omg are they cheesy like old black and white Hollywood cheesy they made me cring tbh though it was more a family arc to me remember the lizard story explains it

Really?? Ironically, I was originally going to highlight the Lilith and Roland relationship as a perfect example of how different another relationship in the series is handled. The only real hint at their relationship is through those ECHOs where Lilith and Roland try and do the stereotypical “I don’t want to show him I’m interested,” thing. Its low key, subtle, and decently funny. It’s 100% the opposite of the Hammerlock Wainwright thing IMO, which is very overt and woven into all of their interactions. Again though, at least part of this could also just be the difference between BL2s good writers and BL3.

Also, I didn’t play Tales, so I can’t comment on any of that.

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Also, don’t include the fact that Jack doesn’t like pretzels. Why do we need to know if he likes them? It’s not central to the plot.

The last few comments are “they’re too gay and it’s too related to the plot” and “if it’s not relevant to the plot, it shouldn’t be included”.

How about including a part of their identity just because it is a part of their identity? Do we need to know what planet Amara is from?

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lol funny you seemed to see his comment as its not important so get rid of it I saw it as well hammerlock and Wainwrights relationship was important to the plot as was hammerlock and aurelias relationship as to how things progressed the way they did see like I said touchy subject

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Liking prerzels or not is a preference not a character thread. Does not liking pretzels makes you a Handsome Jack? Ofcourse not.
Partali is part of Amara’s background.It adds depth to her character by describing her past.

this is why I think the problem lies in the new writers just in general story telling not being the best at subtly not saying omg story sucks I liked the story on and off but it was enough for the style of game having said that b2 and the presequal were slightly better they felt like they knew how to weave a good looter with a good story while a small part of 3s problem may be the feeling of over saturation of pc ideology its like 10% compared to alot of other issues troy and tyreen could have been awesome scroll up I comment on how tyreen seems to be mentally ill and how that could have enhanced her character but this team missed a great opportunity sadly

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Here is the entirety of the wikipage on Partali:

Partali is a planet and the homeworld of Amara.”


Point being that we don’t learn much of anything about Amara from this detail, because we don’t know anything about Partali apart from its name.

But I agree with you that having those little details about characters is good. They might not come up right away, or even in the current game…and they might never come up (i.e. we might never learn about Partali).

Or they could build in later games, dlcs, etc. from anywhere between a couple details dropped in echos or conversation to, for instance, an entire DLC on Partali.

I don’t see why their sexual preference needs to only be mentioned if it is plot related.

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one thing we need to remember about this though I understand what your trying to say like wow big character development but this entire game is based on some borderlands 2 scribbles on walls and stuff about children of the vault people forget that small throw away seeming things can always be used to tell another story so yeah you are totally right it’s beyond tiny but so was the cov in b2 and Pandora in world of war craft if you know the behind the scenes story of mists of panderia expansion

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