Its me again, this time I want to take a moment to talk with you about the awesome action skills you gave us in this game! How much fun they are to use!
and the fact that they 75% of the time are completly useless at level 50 on mayhem 3.
so let me elaborate:
I want to go over every Vault Hunters action skill and tell you what is Wrong with them…
FYI: I have basically every item in the game, All characters at level 50 mayham 3 viable, all builds are rather complete, I have all class mods and they are all fun!
but, do any of my builds (that are actually good and powerful) rely on a action skill?.. well kinda… but more so no.
I am not saying the skills are terrible, quite the contrary, they are all extremely fun to use! the problem is, they for the most part DO NOT SCALE AT ALL into late game, or have little to NO use… and believe me when I say this… I REALLY tried to make them work! I really did!
So let me tell you my story and my findings… and offer solutions. This is all related to level 50 mayhem 3
I will add Statistics of each characters on their builds, and focus on what role the action skill in each Build Fullfills. to showcase, How underwheliming they really are.
First I wanted to call it the “Zane Problame”, he was the first character I played, I was full on Zane Main. and I realized, even after all the hype and theory crafting and builds you could pull off, non of it really worked out for him… because zane has a bunch of problems, not only with his actions skills, but with his kit in general, He severely lacks in raw damage increases on his tree, which makes him quite weak in general compared to some of the other classes, this wouldn’t be so bad though, since he is the gadget boi and relies heavily on his clone, wall and sntl to do the work for him and help him… here is the problem though… ALL of his actions skills are ONLY for utility… non of it packs a punch in ANY way… so even if you do all the shenanigans, jump through all the gimmick hoops… he at the end of the day only relies on his weapons to do the damage, which, as I stated before, do significantly less damage then others VH without beeing overwhelmingly strong in the utility department either…
Strongest build: Kill Skill - using clone and drone
Role of the actions skills: use them JUST to trigger actions skills and then you want to get rid of them as fast as you can!
Usefullness of actively playing with your skills: 2/5
I give it a 2 star rating, because using them to trigger your skills IS in a way actively playing with them and WOULD BE another fun way to play with them… but as you will see… there is no viable other way…
The Hype build: The gimmicky freeze everything build to have infinte skill uptime - using clone and shield
Role of the action skill: spawn a SUPER POWERFUL ULTIMATE BADASS DIGI CLONE with your weapon that WRECKS any enemy and keep yourself save with a personal undestructable shield!
Usefullness of actively playing with your skills: 2/5
So this was the build everyone was excited for, and at the same time this is the biggest problem that already sparked this threads idea one week ago. Story time again…
so I get to level 28 and I finally unlock my super badass digi clone with my gun in hands! I have this amazing rocket launcher that at the time deals over a THOUSAND damage! (wow) and now my digi clone with 60% increased damage, 90% reload speed and 15% fire rate will WRECK sh’t with this beast! I CHOOSE YOU DIGI CLONE!
silence … insert squshy teddy bear noise
he did what now to the enemy? 500 damage? wait… I thought he’d be doing 60% MORE! damage…
well I guess not…
this was devastating to me… why did I spawn a clone that barely even did half my damage… this already was disapointing… I respect, and the badass digiclone without my gun was doing even more dps…
well, I was 50 then, I did a lot of testing, tested every gun, butcher, monocle, unforgivem (because the clone is at least good at dealing criticals), scourge, lyuda, night hawkin, lucians call, every gun…
I tested elements, non element and of course a lot of cryo, so he can freeze as well
here are my findings on guns that do okay: Butcher, nemesis, queens call
literally ony these three guns do a good job at dealing OKAY damage
Biggest disappointments: Flakker, one pump chump, unforgiven, flood and the biggest of them all, the lasersploder! (that thing is a joke)
but the problem is not only the damage scaling… yes it does reduced damage, which is weird, totally unnecessary given how powerful other stuff in the game is, but the even bigger problem is how stuid the AI of the clone his…
YOU HAVE TO TRY the laser sploder… please do it! it is SUCH a good gun… but the clone for what every reason does not hold down the trigger… he does a quick little “pfft” and stops, “bzzt” and stops… its a freaking automatic… hold the trigger down stupid clone! xD
and so many other guns have weird interactions too…
so a fully stacked ultimate badass clone the hardest you can push it… where you invest ANYTHING into it, does “okay” damage at best… while beeing clunky, hard to position and gimmicky to keep up…
the shield obviously doesn’t help you to clear anything faster, but it does protect you of course and does a good job at it, I think it is heavily underrated… it is mostly here to keep your shield and hp up so you get infite duration…
is this build good though… well no, not for me at least… it does work some times… but most of the time it is super hectic and unreliable… because you WILL get damaged at mayhem 3 when surrounded by annoited guys… (and you get surrounded because you dont kill fast enough)
so it is super hard to keep up, or paly suuuper defensivly… and the payoff for all the hustle is pretty low…
so if the clone sucks at dps… then lets try the drone!
wait… you think the drone does any damage?! hahahahahahahaha YOINK! sorry bruh, it does not.
but… you might asked, if the drone does no damage, surely I can increased it with the skill tree right…?
me: ohhhhhh you want to scale it through your skill tree? the amzingly designed featrure that makes borderlands so great that let you scale you skill to do a better job? that increases its damage so much that you are completly carryed by it? like salv did? like krieg? or maybe doppelganger from tps?
me: well gooood for you! here you go! he can now throw a grenade LITERALLY one time in its live time!
both of us: “cry in a corner”
so yeah… why can’t I even scale the drone in any way? the clone has these 2 HUGE buffs to him (supposedly) the shield can have your shield! but the drone gets nothing?! its suppose to be the DPS action skill right? it does NO notable damage at level 50, and I have no way of even increasing its effectivness… and the calss mod for it is a joke! 5% chance on kil to reset it… 5%! you need to kill an avarge of 20 enemys in this duration of like 30-40 seconds… yes you CAN do that, but more often then not there are not even enough enemys OR you just dont kill enough because your damage is “bad” OR you play in a group and dont even get the last hit…
Most fun build : Grenade Zane - using only clone
Role of the actions skills: Keep up you clone for free grenades.
Usefullness of actively playing with your skills: 3/5
This build was the reason I wanted to paly Zane. Throw greandes over and over, regenrating them when I kill stuff or spawn my clone, while my clone is up, throws a free grenade, then evebn more after kills sometime and then again after he dies. is it fun? hell yes! is it good? well you might think that if its your first character… but then you play moze… and you figure out that she does it way, way, WAY better then you do… in this build you keep up your clone for utility, just because it spams some free grenades, or to recharge your shields, is it good in this situation yes, but is it actively doing anything… no.
and you literally dont use a second skill here, because even though the drone CAN theoratically throw grenade(s) it does it SO poorly that you are better of just doing it yourself not using it… and therefore dont use the “first shot fired, also fires a grenade” either… because the chance really is so low for no reason… why not just make it 100% chance every 8 seconds? is it really THAT op to throw a grenade every 8 seconds? I think not… especially looking at Moze… (please dont nerf moze… yes Im scared for nerfs in a borderlandsgame… the first time for 7 years… buts thats another story…)
Sooooo yeah… TL;DR:
the clone does terribly damage for no reason… even if you scale it, it can’t NEARLY keep up with any thing else in the game, it is dramatically weak for a whole tree you invest in it… and its AI and mechanics are weird to a point where you need to test for hours to even figure out if a weapon is good on him or not.
The SNTL is okay for utility, debuffing enemys a tiny bit, but you really wouldn’t notice if it is there or not if you dont pay attention… it is a fire and forget uninteractable little thing that increases you damage by like 5%.
The shield is literally the best skill, providing huge defensive bonuses… but defense is not the problem of zane, it is damge, and the shield and its tree both dont help with it either…
My solution: not only make the clone scale with your weapon damage, but make it a legit copy, with even your shield equipped maybe, give it the exact same base damage that you have, make it affected by all you skills and scale with all the damage% that you might have… so when I spaw a Badass clone with my weapon it really does 60% more damage that I would do with the same gun. this is what IT should be! at it wouldnt even be overpowered in ANY stretch of the imagination when compared to anything FL4K and Moze are doing…
Give us a REAL option to scale the drone, give it WAY more base damage per level, make it scale with mayhem, so it does more damage the higher mayhem level you are. or make it scale with your own damage too (not sure how to implement this… but make it have 80% of the damage increases you have to affect the drone.)
WE NEED BIG BOY BUFFS HERE RANDY!
And I am too Lazy for now to go into class mods… but where every other character gets really nice benefits to their kits and builds, zane gets weird stuff that wants you to try even more new stuff that totally goes against everything you are doing and try to combines things that just dont work together as the skills are right now…
anyway… these are my 2 cents on Zane atm… I will do a thread about Moze and her mech next, and then fl4k and his pets especially.
maybe not amara, as phasegrasp is as amazing as it ever was, and the other skills really just need some number tweaks for mayhem mode to do proper damage.
What do you think? have you found an amazing build on Zane? did I miss something completly? are you fine with his skills not doing damage? are you enjoying zane none the less?
rember that everthing I talk about is related to level 50 mayhem 3, while leveling, zane was a blast!