Theory: Immortal AFK Moze - Mayhem 2.0 update

It kinda works with any artifact with health regen IF you have a low capacity stop-gap with 5% regen when full, -10% Max HP, in addition to regen on class mod too. And you might want to spec into Tenacious Defense for good measure, you’ll want as much time at full shield during that 5 seconds as possible.

If you’re under a constant barrage of damage, they’ll probably be able to whittle you down eventually.

Regarding the levelcap increase to level 57 nothing has changed … the concept still works:


Level 57 Moze health = 10874

Level 57 Moze health with Loaded Dice = 2718

Level 57 health regen (on artifact or classcom) = 272 per second

That leads us to:

  • 272 * 5 = 1360 health regenerated
  • 2718 / 2 = 1359 health regen needed for healthgate

So you can regenerate above 50% health in the 5 second Stop Gap immunity phase to qualify for health gate. Depending on your guardian rank bonuses, a Stop Gap with Brimming Effect or Turtle Effect or health regen both on class mod and artifact may be needed to ensure this.


Thats the build I’m running at the moment:

Shield capacity

With the extra skill points we can get Tenacious Defense easily and are even more flexible on the shield capacity:

BSC = Base shield capacity (Stop Gap)
PDP = Phalanx Doctrine points
PDS = Phalanx Doctrine stacks

BSC * (1 + PDS * 0.03 * PDP ) * 0.6 = 272 * 5

my values:

  • BSC = 141 shield capacity (level 1 Stop Gap shield)
  • PDP = 8 (5 base + 3 class mod)

141 * (1 + PDS * 0.03 * 8 ) * 0.6 = 272 * 5
PDS = 62.815

So I can support 62 stacks of Phalanx doctrine before shield capacity would be an issue.

Thin Red Line

As I will probably never reach 62 stacks, I thought about adding 1 or 2 points to Thin Red Line to get more out of Desperate Measures.

BSC = Base shield capacity (Stop Gap)
PDP = Phalanx Doctrine points
PDS = Phalanx Doctrine stacks
BHE = Base health
TRL = Thin Red Line points

(BSC + BHE * 0.2 * TRL) * (1 + PDS * 0.03 * PDP ) * 0.6 = 272 * 5

my values for 2 points Thin Red Line:

  • BSC = 141 shield capacity (level 1 Stop Gap shield)
  • PDP = 8 (5 base + 3 class mod)
  • BHE = 2718
  • TRL = 2

(141 + 2718 * 0.2 * 2) * (1 + PDS * 0.03 * 8 ) * 0.6 = 272 * 5
PDS = 3.523

So with 2 points in Thin Red Line I can only support 3 stacks of Phalanx doctrine until I run into shield capacity problems … not worth it.

my values for 1 point Thin Red Line:

  • BSC = 141 shield capacity (level 1 Stop Gap shield)
  • PDP = 8 (5 base + 3 class mod)
  • BHE = 2718
  • TRL = 1

(141 + 2718 * 0.2 * 1) * (1 + PDS * 0.03 * 8 ) * 0.6 = 272 * 5
PDS = 9.629

So with 1 points in Thin Red Line I can support 9 stacks of Phalanx doctrine until I run into shield capacity problems … more doable, but probably still not worth it.

So going for Thin Red Line for min/maxing in my build is not a good idea as exceeding the shield capacity breaks the concept of the build.

But on the non-min/maxing side the better flexibility regarding shield capacity, lets you also be more flexible in item choice. So you can probably get away with Stop Gap shields with higher level or Bloodletter classmods with +1 Thin Red Line, if you know your limits.


Doing the good work. Thank you for this.

With the legendary vending machines now it is easy to get a low level Stop Gap too, nice build!

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To add to this, I have been farming Agonizer the past few days and it does drop the Loaded Dice quite frequently so I think it’s safe to say that Pain’s loot is also in the Agonizer now.

Update for Mayhem 2.0

If you avoid the “Very Hard” option “Post Mortem” (the one with the skulls that send you into fight for your life) the new Mayhem mode up to Mayhem 10 can not throw anything at you that can harm you:

But as +12500% health/armor/shields is really big you probably need to farm new weapons to get some reasonable killspeed.

I could do Mayhem 10 easily without farming by using an old “Pre Mayhem 2.0” Anarchy with buildup stacks:

But for a smoother killspeed I will farm a Mayhem 10 version next.


How does the new patch affect the build? Since one of the add-ons prevent shield effect stacking apparently. Does it affect the stopgap?

The build still works - as seen above I already tested it with the new patch on Mayhem 10. The shield fix was not about the Stop Gap only about stacking “when shield is full” and “when shield is depleted” effects. What could be easily abused on Moze by using Phalanx Doctrine:

For that I still need to confirm if this is really fixed now. I really liked the stacking speed boost on a Lvl 1 Stop Gap with “Fleet” effect (10% speed boost when shields are full, as shown in the video). But as we now have “Speed demon” (+50% speed per kill, stackable 3 times) as a Mayhem modifier this can be a good replacement.

The patch notes only mention that they fixed “when shields are broken” effects … so the speed glitch could still work. I will test this when I’m done with my working day.

For some reason this is ALMOST working, but not quite. I have 140 shield, 2718 health, 423 health regen, 3 pts in Phalanx Doctrine (from my Bloodletter). I can stand in the middle of tier 10 and not die for 10 minutes, then something random will kill me and I cannot figure out why. I’m using no splash damage and I’m not near a barrel. I’ve been killed by normal cultist psychos. I removed ALL skill points to see if Cloud of Lead or some other skill was doing it, and disabled all guardian perks, and STILL it’s happening. Is there something I’m missing? EDIT: I also know it’s not the phalanx doctrine as I’ve died with no stacks of it active.

Are you using the OPQ. I died a few times using that gun when enemies are rushing me.

What are the modifiers? Is it possible one of them is taking you down?

That is plenty of hp regen for your shield and health bar. I suggest trying to stand by as many enemies (after you safely blow up the barrels) in the M4 TTD. That’s plenty of damage to test with, and no modifiers that can kill you regardless of this setup. Don’t shoot your gun, watch your health.

M10 has a modifier that can send a death cloud that instantly downs you when you kill an enemy. Maybe you had that on?

I have narrowed it down to melee enemies. They can sometimes do it even when I’m not firing. I think. I was using OPQ, so maybe it has some spash damage? The modifiers I had were no Second Wind (I mean, I’m immortal, right?). It’s always the psychos or tinks with the melee that rush you that do it.

The O. P. Q System does self harming splash when the guns explode. That’s what’s killing you.

Confirmed, and thank you! I had died without that weapon armed, but maybe barrels. Since stopping the mini gun spawn I’m immortal again. Thanks so much!

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OPQ shoots shock element splash dmg rockets similar to lasersploder, so don’t hit anything in point blank range w/o a transformer

For anyone like me trying to find a Loaded Dice with health regen, I farmed Agonizer seemingly forever with no luck (plenty of Loaded Dice, never with health regen). However with the new Loot the Universe event, farming the ‘Cathedral of the Vault’ in Pandora drops a plethora of artifacts and I finally got one after farming for a couple of days on Mayhem 6.

Also if you are in need of a Bloodletter with health regen, The Droughts area is dropping class mods.

Now I need to farm a weapon with a decent kill speed that doesn’t kill me (goodbye Yellowcake!)

Is there any way to get more damage out of this build in terms of weapon choices? Can’t seem to do much on Mayhem 10 without weapons that also kill me

Have you gotten the Sandhawk yet? I was using it in Mayhem 6 last night and shredding with it, maybe with an optimized build it would do okay in M10. Or try the Anarchy!

Yup, I have 2 Sandhawks from Mayhem 10 (radiation and cryo, not sure if they are actually Mayhem 10 Sandhawks) and one from Mayhem 6 (shock). Couldn’t do Graveward with them (not sure if I’m supposed to be able to?)

Also tried an Anarchy from Mayhem 10 which didn’t work out. I think there’s something I’m doing wrong here lol