There needs to be great penalties for diving

Having played a lot of League, a bit of Smite, and now a bit of Paragon, I have to say they are all better designed than Battleborn when it comes to the maps. There is a lot more penalty for diving enemy turrets in those games. In this game, the sentries are a joke and don’t get me started on Meltdown where you basically have no base defenses. Those turrets that guard the spawn point are largely useless.

There simply needs to be greater penalties for diving, especially early game. It is way too easy for example in Overgrowth to get into the tunnel or up onto the ledge and poke the Sentry from those locations, there’s not much danger in it. Again, the Sentry is pathetic.

Sentry shields should be invincible to Battleborn fire and all maps need better base defenses. I like Battleborn a lot and in many ways prefer it to say, Paragon, however the map design simply leaves a lot be desired. Far too easy to push and dive and there’s very little risk to doing so.

EDIT: Having seen a lot of discussion on the point of Sentry shields I’m willing to change my position and say they don’t need to be invincible to Battleborn fire. The fact remains that it is still far too easy for Battleborn to operate in and around the Sentry with little to no danger. There are myriad ways to make the Sentry more deadly, make it more aggressive, buff its shield hp, let Battleborn damage the shield but at a serious disadvantage, give it an AOE attack. The point being, it is too easy to dive particularly in early game. Late game is different.

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Are you playing private PvP? Because unless you’re playing against rookies, increasing those defenses and penalties against a decent team would be impossible on the other side of things.

For the most part, Sentry shields are better left to the minions.

You have a lot less direct control over your avatar in those games as well.

This game is a lot less MOBA and more MOBA invaded by FPS. As a result, certain walls are broken and strategies turned on thier head. Also, the penalty for turret diving in those games is much more about preventing spawn camping in my opinion. Even then there are some great team builds for dipping into the spawn on Smite arena that make Marcheese look fair by comparison.

That said, those sentries do massive damage once you get thier attention.

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If sentry shields were immune to BattleBorn damage, any team with a wave clear champ would never lose. Terrible idea.

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Sentry shields invincible to Battleborn fire? I’m not entirely sure if this is a good idea? What would Battleborn who can’t push waves do?

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I don’t know about making the shields immune to players, but sentries DO need a buff.

I’ve seen players stunned near the sentry, slowed on the way out, and still able to walk away unscathed.

Simply put, the sentries need the attitude of the turrets. Those little guys are relentless. I’ve seen the stinger turrets shooting at walls and empty hallways because an enemy dared poke their head out, and they will continue to fire long after you’ve gone, lest you return anytime soon.

Give the sentries that kind of determination, and sentry-diving will become much more of a gamble.

Perhaps even give the sentry an AoE attack with persistent ground effects (like OM’s napalm grenade) on a long cool down, to punish people who try to peek and hide, chip the sentry down.

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i would rather it be about pushing minions than back dooring the sentry like 90% of teams i face do. it would turn it into more of a fair fight were the team that pushes hardest wins instead of the one who back doors the sentry the quickest wins, but this is coming from someone who pushes the minions in incursion. plus i find back dooring the sentry not as fun as pushing minions. yes, you win when you back door the sentry without being caught but it’s not as fun, and i thought battleborn was about having fun.

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Then stop them from backdooring you. It’s not that hard to pay attention. What you are suggesting is simply an awful idea. Any team with an Alani, Thorn, Attikus, Benedict, Oriendi, Dragon, Melka, Rath, Shane, Kelvin, Isic, Miko, Ambra, Galiea, or Boldour would have a 100% win or tie rate.

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While I don’t agree with everything you said, one thing I do agree on is that the sentry could so with better offensive capabilities. In my opinion if you shoot the sentry it should at least attempt to shoot back.

I had Marquis one game just standing in the open shooting our bases sentry while it did nothing. And this is after the cheesing patch. Surely if a sentry is shot at it should react to it offensively, not just stand there and go ow?

The sentry should at least acknowledge that you’re shooting at it and try to defend itself. At the moment it just seems too passive.

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you just listed half the battleborn (more than half if you don’t include the battleborn that aren’t announced), and what’s wrong with making it about pushing minions. meltdown you have to push minions to their death why not in incursion? I feel making it more about the minions will give both teams a chance to win. cause at least one of those 15 you listed is bound to be on both teams. plus it looks like you forgot marquis, kleese and oscar mike are good at wave clear as well as the 15 you listed plus those are some popular choices anyway.

I haven’t played a single game where backdooring was successful…

It can be a bit of a distraction, hell I’ve even seen someone backdoor the entire shield down on our sentry before we realized Marquis was in the corner of our tunnel. I thought just that was impressive, but it wasn’t really relevant since the minions hadn’t made it to our base yet.

I get what you’re saying from the perspective of other MOBA’s. “Tower diving” is an extremely dangerous prospect. The distinctions in this game from other MOBAs is what I enjoy about it though.

The only change I wouldn’t mind is additional turrets for purchase in the sentry areas, and maybe an additional upgrade level to them for more shards. Maybe it’s because I’m usually ranged, but the turrets are pretty much a joke. They really are just a bit of a distraction. I imagine they’re a bit more annoying for melee, especially the rocket turrets, but your ranged people should really be knocking those down before you even get there.

It would also be kind of cool if the sentry had additional turrets on it to allow it to target multiple targets. This would be a lot of effort to implement though, and I think there are more important things to focus on.

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I’m sure your figure of 90% of teams backdooring is an exaggeration, and I daresay that if you think teams win by backdooring you haven’t played a lot of Incursion or don’t know how to play Incursion. Since the update there is no more snowballing, destroying the first sentry is no longer a guaranteed win and is easily countered if you play defensive long enough to rebuild turrets and claim mid while the enemy team is scattered, they’re much more easily killed in an open space than when fighting over a tight lane crowded with minions and thralls which makes pushing on the second sentry early a risk and one that a lot of impatient players take when they think they’ve got the advantage.

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There people go again… Every time I hear people just claim that it’s easy to stop someone from backdooring them, or that it doesn’t work, I know they haven’t had it happen to them enough yet.

There is a lot more to the problem than just “paying attention”

I both agree and disagree with that.
First off I agree that the turrets in meltdown need to be rethought. I think that the thumper turret should be able to hit whoever is attacking the accelerator. That change alone would make it harder for early dives.
That being said I don’t think that the sentrys should be invincible to player fire at any point, but the sentry should be able to shoot back at someone if they are trying to attack it alone and they should probably die for the effort. Poking at the sentry in the way you mentioned might be enough to sway the battle a little at a crucial moment, but it is not likely that someone will be able to completely drop a sentrys shield let alone damage or destroy it.

Just because some of the things in battleborn don’t work like they should, does not mean that the answer is to make it like other games. Battleborn is something new and I like the way it’s going so far.

backdoor is ok in every moba, so could be ok here too.
the real issue is the affidability of turrets.

actually sentries don’t retaliate, so that’s why a normal ranged dps without healer can trade with em.
set this up like sentries will “instantly” start retaliate with any enemy in sight ( wherever he is ). Not after X seconds.

Then a single dps could not be able to solo one of em.
If there’s a blind spot, just add more turret to sentries, allowing em to shot to whoever in sight, wherever he is.

then backdoor would be still avaible ofc, but with a healer on the dps sight.

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Yeah. Just make it so the sentry can hurt you if you can hurt, and make it more aggaggressive. Minions and thralls draw aggro anyways, right?

I’d actually be okay with an invincible sentry. Just make it become vulnerable once it engages an enemy. Simple.

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Yeah ofc, minions draw aggro anyways.

I wouldn’t add, as a moba/fps the rule “if a bb attack a bb near the turret, the turret swap from minion to bb” because minions tends to be squishy enough.

shields are fine but they need a big dps output buff. I see players now jumping up that used to be sniper nest running in and surviving for way too long.

ok it’s not 90% of the time it’s just when i’m stuck with randoms with no mic that think it’s team deathmatch that back dooring the sentry occurs and it’s always on overgrowth that people do it (reason why i like echelon more).

Funny, I find people do it a lot more on Overgrowth too but it’s a lot easier on Echelon lol. You can even backdoor the second sentry, a last resort tactic I see used a lot by a losing team, but by this stage the enemy is held back near their spawn and the only hope of breaking the choke and winning is to sneak by and destroy the sentry quickly so I see it as a viable and legitimate strategy, if you’re not paying attention and an enemy breaks the line to your sentry you’ve only yourself to blame IMO.
Best to communicate to your team to hold the line but try not to kill anyone if you’re going to do that, a respawning opponent can easily foil your plan and raise the alarm.

On Overgrowth though, I find backdooring cheap as only certain characters can do it, but they almost never win this way as someone will notice and push them back down the ledge so it’s not a concern of mine.

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