There's no point in buffing all the characters to Amara levels

I’ve (and still am) been anti-nerf for my entire life, but let’s talk clear, even if Amara was light years ahead every other VH, now it’s ridiculous. She has reached a point in which the argument “they should buff the other characters to her level” is utterly and completely destroyed. As I’ve stated, there’s no point in buffing the other chars because if everyone had a power similar to Amara, then the game couldn’t offer any challenge at all.

She’s broken to an extent that everybody, and I mean everybody, can solo Wotan in 1 minute. I’ve lend the game to my brother, who haven’t played Borderlands in his entire life and has a general experience with shooters, and he was destroying everything just aiming and shooting, badasses exploding in 2 shots and also everyone near them, what tf is this?

I’m saying this because I’m a Fl4k/Zane main, and altho I’m not pro nerf, there’s a point they shouldn’t pass and clearly did. I don’t want my characters to be as strong and this girl. In fact, I don’t want my characters to be near as strong as her. It literally feels like a developers character or a testing asset option instead of a character. Had no problem with her at all before this new COM but this is absurd.


It actually would be easier to buff others.

Nerf Driver, she still has Zerker. Nerf both, she still has Nimbus. Nerf all three, she still has Breaker that is stronger than any other VH’s com.

And that is how it will go with everything. Anoints, skills, ASs. The other 3 have conditional bonuses with negative effects usually on CD, Amara has a half dozen here you go bonus damage skills that are MUCH stronger. You would have to remove her from the game completely!

What is easier: nerfing 354,732 things Amara has or tossing the other 3 a couple buffs and items?


Amara is too OP.

Nerf Moze
Nerf Fl4k
Buff Amara some more


Driver just needs a cap like Zane’s skill.

But I don’t think the Nimbus, Breaker and even the Phasezerker (without Fakegrasp cheesing) are imbalanced. Yes they are stronger than what the other classes have - but they aren’t game-breaking. I don’t think many were clamoring for Amara balance prior to the Driver - which clearly demonstrates it is the problem. The big problem is the Driver getting a gun damage buff that is probably 5-10x more than is actually appropriate. Yes the Phasezerker is a really strong COM, but I don’t think there’s a problem to having really strong things, we are playing Borderlands after all.

Other classes need a buff, yes - but not necessarily to Amara’s level. Fl4k needs more survivability, and his 3 action skills all need a rework in view of M4. Zane still needs some non-conditional DPS and much better COMs in general. Moze, well, isn’t in a great place right now. But rather, these class’s buffs shouldn’t be scaled to Amara, but made appropriately to combat M4’s new difficulty level.


It’s a good point, but then again, we have the problem that I’ve already mentioned.

Before this patch, I was one of those many who said “let’s buff the others”. The reason being, even if she has better than everyone else by a long shot, her Zerker build still was “reasonable”. Yes, noticeably better than the rest, but reasonable in playability terms. So, “buffing the others” to reach a strenght level similar to hers was a logical conclusion.

Now, you can’t buff the other Vault Hunters to compare with her. You just can’t still say “buff the others to reach her”, because if the others reach her, the game ends. It ends even in an hypothetical Mayhem 5. Her damage output from the getgo is insane, insane is not even an apropiate word to describle it. She’s inmortal and does amounts of damage comparable to the terror proyectile glitch. As I said, she’s a developers character, a mode, not a char anymore.


I’m okay with creep. I didn’t buy Dark Souls or Destiny, I bought Borderlands, once touted as Diablo with guns. My entire reason for playing this game/genre is to mow down hordes with my OP and fun weapons and skills.


And that a respectable opinion, but I ain’t talking about not being OP. There’s a point in which you may be overpowered but also feel the game is offering a substantial challenge.

The point of Mayhem 4 and future difficulty upgrades are… to be challenging. For those difficulties to be cleared, you surely need an OP build. But there’s a great difference between having an OP build (aka a build able to surpass the game’s greatest challenges with high success) and a playable developers-console with the skin of a Siren that destroys everything in sight without any effort.

That’s what I don’t want for the other characters.


I just wanna be able to use 4 Ten Gallons that shoot crit spot and automatically refill ammo. WHERE IS MY GUNMANCER BUILD GEARBOX?

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Play Zane :joy:


I’m playing Amara. I’m probably playing her “wrong” according to your standard. But i am not seeing that “look at enemies and they dies” level of OP that you are trying to make her be.

Sure, she is strong but not to the point where the game explode. You still need to farm for an ungodly amont of time the right set of gear to reach those level of brokeness

If you DO NOT manage to one or two shot everything when you have sinked hundreds of hours into farming the best stuff, there is something seriously wrong with the game as it probably means that you can’t kill anything with 99% of what the game as to offer.

To be honest, i kind of find you opinion offeding. It’s like having a 1% complaining that life is boring after their 5th flight to space on a private space shuttle to a guy that’s struggling to put food on the table.


Does anyone get the feeling that Amara is an easier character targeted at end-users by GB for commercial reasons. The more people who like and complete the game… the better future sales?

Maybe gearbox want’s people to choose a different character if they want the game to be more challenging…

I am not saying this is the best strategy for balancing end game content for other characters for so many reasons that you can find on this forum.

Disclaimer- Also I am not saying that if you play or like Amara - that you have no skill. Or that your character should not be balanced for interesting game content.

But I am trying to guess the decisions behind the choices that have been made that clearly make Amara a front runner.

Tin hat theory…

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She is Brick Punching Siren.

That’s why gearbox love her.
There ain’t no other meaningfull explanation beside that.

The problem is that her melee skills are boring. I’d rather play Krieg, Athena and Melee Mord than her. But she is the only one trully able to pack a punch so… stuck with her atm.

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No you don’t need perfect gear. You just need the right gear - a Recursion, a Driver, a EP and… okay that’s pretty much it. Yes, to replicate the Time Trial level performance of Youtubers you probably need perfect gear - but even without its still absolutely busted.

If you are not playing Amara in a way that’s trivializing the game, you probably aren’t using one of those meta builds - which means your build probably doesn’t need balancing. But that doesn’t change the fact that there are some builds that do, as have been made eminently clear in the past week.


The issue is that the Driver class mod has too high a damage cap relative to the other Vault Hunters’ damage potential. Scaling that down would help a lot, probably still make it her go-to build for endgame though which is a problem too since the other mods were already underused for her except Zerker and Breaker. Her’s is an issue where the skills boosted are negligible for most of the others in favor of the special effects, but on all the others the special effects aren’t even good either.

And honestly the only reason for the Driver’s existence as such is probably due to their decision to make Mayhem 4 such a needlessly bloated jump from Mayhem 3. I’m hoping that whatever Mayhem 2.0 ends up being, its not just more of Mayhem 4.


No they don’t.
For one very simple and crucial reason.

Gearbox just doesn’t know how to “balance” something without breaking the game even further.
There are always casualty builds when they try to balance the difficulty and that’s really the only reason why no one should ever ask for them to balance the difficulty.
There are other things that need complete reworking in the game before those small band aid caled balance patch.

The whole anointment system is buster. From how it works ASE ? Seriously ? Zane and Moze don’t really like those. The stats: Amara getting 300% every 35s isn’t a big deal in itself. THe fact that the other don’t get something as efficient is while also not having as many damage multiplicator in their skill tree is.
The “no stacking same anointment bonuses” is another. Nowhere in the game is it stated. Who didn’t try to stack too, didn’t pay close attention to the number showing up in intense fight to latter learning on the net that they don’t stack ?
Way too much different anointment for the rate at wich items spawn.

Broken bonuses in item card. Weapon damage and constructor weapon damage not being the same, Area of effect being the same thing as grenade damage or AoE damage, ect…

Have gearbox fix the biggest problem first.
If you don’t like op build, just don’t play them. Complaining about them… what’s the actual point ? People abuse them ? Kick them if you play multi. That’s it.

I’m gonna give the same irritating answer as those defending extremely low dedicated drop rate M4 locked content.
It’s optional, don’t play the content… thing is, for this particular problem. It really is optional. One build is a problem. Kill one item, not the character… or just don’t. Maybe that item is important to one of those other low tier and killing it won’t make Amara any less strong but it will kill the other small guy.

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i’ve only managed to solo the raid with amara and that was with a phasezereker mod and i do kinda suckisucki at this game i’ve realized with the release of takedown (moze m1, flak m3 but crashed during last valkyrie, amara m4, there is only 3 VHs right?=)).

so clearly, it’s not just because of this new COM… amara is just so well rounded and got an answer to nearly everything the game throws at you and i’m fine with that, i like to counter play certain situations. i like challange, but what i like more is being able to overcome challange by finding that build which allows me to change up loadout/action skills/augments based on specific needs. amara can do this, and i want the other 3 VHs to be able to do the same.

First, and please, do not get my wrong, I don’t care (not only a bit) if you find my opinion about an aspect of a videogame “offeding”. Nor do I care about your personal feelings.

Secondly, I haven’t refered to any individual in terms of skill, nor have I talked about the skill level of the players who play Amara. Thus, I’m completely ignoring your point.

Amara is broken. She’s just that broken. I repeat: broken. Broken to the point that the damage ir so abnormally high that any person, even non-Borderlands 3 players, can rekt anything at sight in Mayhem 4 if they know how to shoot at things.

I don’t have any problem with Amara pre-Driver COM, even if she was sustantially better than the rest. I don’t even have a problem with Amara post-Driver COM. I’m just stating the fact that she’s a walking developers console with a Siren skin and I don’t want Gearbox to buff the others to the point she’s in right now, because that would end the game for me.


That new COM is not as great as everyone thinks. I tried using it with a speed relic and the movement speed was so great I would repeatedly run off the map due to inertia. It’s like a breakneck-banshee on steroids.

Great to use against some bosses, but not something I like to use in general.

There have been far too many Buff/Nerf cycles with this game already, which I fear will not end until the last bit of DLC and Max Level Cap has been delivered.

What worries me when I see these discrepancies in power between characters is the fact that the programmers will try to balance new content based on the most efficiency a player is able to reach. We have a character or a piece of equipment able to deal 1M dps? The next content released will be balanced around that… That creates the same power creep we saw in BL2, and sincerely I was having more fun with bl3 when badass tinks did not take 20000000 bullets to kill.
For this reason I think all characters should be balanced, dps wise.