This game is a Min Maxer's worst nightmare

I agree with you. I’m not stating that they are the creators of the marketplace. I should have been clearer about this :thinking:.

Again, we are in agreement. But! … Human beings just naturally form marketplaces whenever and wherever conditions allow it. We can’t help ourselves. We as a species just seem to be wired that way. For example, Ebay! The trading of in game assets for real world $$?!! :exploding_head: I didn’t see that coming! When I found out that that marketplace existed I was surprised and simultaneously not surprised because it’s simply another manifestation of the human impulse to form marketplaces wherever and whenever the conditions allow.

Now here is where I kinda disagree. Please note the text in bold because those words affect the applicability of #1 and #2. Points 1 & 2 are valid and astute observations not of the trading feature but of the marketplace itself because in ALL marketplaces where humans are involved fraud is a central problem. For example, let’s say hammers and nails enable people to make furniture (i.e., the mailbox system in this analogy). There is nothing stopping someone for selling a table as oak at oak prices when in reality it’s pine.

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So what? Try farming for hybrid guns in bl1. This game has always been about the farming.

I don’t think that’s an appropriate comparison.

Agree to disagree.

But it’s the sense of entitlement that’s a bit off IMO.

Absolutely agree for those very few slim cases, but again, I see nothing entitled about OP’s expectations and suggestions.

This isn’t a game that rewards effort in a linear way and it never has been.

No need to explain the concept of a loot game. I’m sure all the good folks here are quite familiar with how these games work.

But demonizing - to use your words - the developers because you’re not getting exactly what you want isn’t right IMO.

Ooo. Kind of a stretch there. I admit that “demonize” was a poor choice of words. Sure, there are player posts that threaten and lash out at Gbx over drop rates, but it is not happening here. This thread has remained civil and productive. Skimming over it, I see players offering their suggestions and jokingly expressing their frustrations. If that is considered “demonizing the developers”, then I’d like to apologize to Gbx and you.

Question back at you: if Anointments didn’t exist but the rest of the game remained exactly as it was (including current drop rates), chances are you’d already have the best gear available. Would you be happy with what you had?

A highly unlikely scenario, but okay. I’d play the game with the same attitude as if I was playing it now and all of the previous games. That’d be to explore and experience what the games had to offer. The reason why I would put down the game is because I am done trying stuff out. No amount of drop rates, high or low, would dissuade me. So, why do I even care? I recognize that the process is more stressful than it should be and some of it doesn’t properly reflect the players’ efforts.

Take farming vanilla class mods, for instance. Trial bosses are supposedly the dedicated loot source for them, yet GW and Agonizer are still my go-to. Why is that? I’ll do a multitude runs to maybe get the wrong COM or the right one, but the stats aren’t particular useful. Never mind it being perfect and never mind the chest. Meanwhile, I farm GW and Agonizer several times over in the same amount of time and I’m more likely to have picked up some anointed world drops and COMs with acceptable stats. So, in addition being less stressful, I think drop rates for certain parts of the game should also make sense.

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2 posts were merged into an existing topic: Bad Posts (for individual posts not topics)

They’re there. Just hiding. Actually, I leveled an alt and encountered 6 loot midgets along the way. They dropped, in total, 2 purples. I sometimes see chubby skags when I go to the Droughts to test out grenades.

Let’s try that again without all the passive-aggressive posting, shall we?

Please read the FORUM RULES

And just as a ‘by the way’, things don’t always have to be exclusively one thing or another - there’s plenty of room in the middle for other explanations.

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But that I meant that they are two very different things so a direct comparison is not apt. The issue is not whether either method is legitimate, but whether it’s right to expect a return for a given amount of effort. Trading is such a different mechanic to farming that direct comparison is misleading.

You misunderstand. I’m not looking to take offence at the word “demonizing” but just pointing out that it’s perhaps a bit extreme to apply that label to any form of criticism!

I guess this may be where we have the biggest difference as I think it’s a mistake to link reward with effort in an RNG game like that. That’s pretty much the point of my posts as I think people are misunderstanding how it works. And I’m not trying to be condescending, it’s just that the whole concept of effort=reward in terms of the gear received is a bit disconnected from the reward mechanics in the BL universe. I do understand it’s frustrating, but it’s exactly what the game promises to be fair

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It’s not entitlement to expect a franchise to evolve to keep up with its peers.

Right, and that is the exact problem. This is a loot based RPG, and other genre contemporaries have figured this out. Borderlands needs to adapt. You’re defending poor design IMO.

No offense intended, but it seems that you are the one that doesn’t quite understand the genre as a whole. Clearly, min/maxing and progression are things that don’t concern you (which is totally fine), but they do concern a lot of people that play these types of games; and most other games in this genre do it much, much better. I don’t disagree with you that I think overall drop rates are fine (excluding Proving Grounds and the CoS, which have terrible drop rates), but the dedicated drop rates are statistically miniscule compared to BL2. Personally, I would just like a way to reroll items to cut down on the RNG. This feature exists in literally every other loot based game that I have played, and it works. But again, this feature being absent is a prime example of the problem here, that GBX is behind the curve when compared to things most other loot games do well.

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Great topic!

I have a loooooooong list of items I’ve been farming and except for 5 different versions of the Lyuda I have not gotten any of the rest. Some of what I’m looking for are what you listed as well as Red Fang, Elemental Projector, Scorpio XL, Cutsman, Electric Banjo and It’s Piss.

It’s frustrating as you’d think you wouldn’t have to farm the same boss for days on end for a single item. I’ve been unable to complete a single build where I can say it’s perfect for what I was going after as I miss 1 or more pieces to do it.

I’m not sure if it’s Mayhem as I only run MH2 right now, or if it’s just that my luck sucks. I mean it did take me months longer to get Destiny’s Gjallarhorn than anybody else, so I know how it feels.

I disagree with the entire concept that a game developer would spend months designing an anointed weapon system with anointments for specific skills in specific classes that wildly effect the damage the weapon does, and then failed to factor that entire system in to their play balancing.

And unless you can show some factual proof that they did develop this entire anointment system only to totally ignore it with they make playbalancing adjustments to the game, then the only logical conclusion that anyone can arrive at is simply that they didn’t do as you are suggesting.

Now, on to proof. FACTUAL PROOF.

There you go. Two very specific examples of Gearbox altering play balancing for anointments. Undeniable proof that they factor it in to their playbalancing.

So, unless you can offer more definitive proof than that then the only logical conclusion is they absolutely do play balance around anointments. PERIOD. Any suggestions to the contrary must be supported with proof that the above statements from Gearbox are false and they do not make specific play balancing changes for anointments. Lacking that proof any claims to the contrary must be accepted as false. Deliberately so if the claims are going to continue to be made in defiance of Gearbox’s own official statements.

Good news in a month or so the level cap will raise and you can all start over from scratch. :frowning:

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That hotfix basically was an attempt to balance out character skills without doing a complete rework, which would require an update and so take longer. So I would not read too much into that.

Which is not the same as claiming that they exclusively balance around anointments, of course.

I would respectfully suggest that anointments are like glitch weapons in TPS - they’re there to add another dimension to loot, create interesting synergies with skills, and generally expand the options to players.

If - as seems to be the case - there is a perception that specific anointments on specific items (and particularly legendary ones) is essential for playing at the maximum difficulty currently available, that suggests that maybe the solution is a better balancing of the difficulty factors (and there are multiple threads on suggestions for how to tweak mayhem).

This is high time to move the discussion on from attempts to read the developer’s minds, however.

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You would think, but this is also the same dev that designs two entirely “end game” modes (PG and CoS) and then makes the drop rates for each mode horrific. So yeah…

Has this actually been confirmed?

Well communication from GB has been bad this time so no, I dont think we got a roadmap after the first one.

I actually completely forgot about the fact that a level cap increase will invalidate the majority of current gear for end game viability. This makes the RNG issue even more ridiculous.

Definitely not fed up. This game rains powerful gear down on us all the time, yet some stay frustrated because they haven’t gotten the mythical ‘God roll’ stats they’re looking for. Problem is that what’s perfect for you might be good enough for another and might be worthless to someone else (hence you naturally get an active trading market).

Having two or three specific stats on an item doesn’t make or break this game for me. There are so many ways to win, its mind-blowing and the community has just gotten started.

You already have a menu of options right now:

  1. make the best of what you find, OR
  2. keep farming as long as it takes to get the wanted gear and accept the reality that that could happen on your next run or in 10,000 runs because there’s no way for GBX to know what your mind considers perfect, OR
  3. trade with someone who has what you’re looking for.

Do we really need GBX to spend time and resources developing another option? I don’t think so.

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That’s quite a set of deductions there.

Things are rarely as black and white as you might think. The fact that they attempted to rebalance things suggests to me that they didn’t properly factor in the effect anointments would have. That’s not the same as saying they completely ignored them, by the way, which appears to be the strawman you’re creating, but it’s also not saying the game is purposely balanced around the anointments, any more than that it’s balanced around any other thing in the game. They’re just another mechanic to factor in, that’s all.

The constant tweaks are proof that they don’t have an accurate handle on the effects of everything they do. Which isn’t all that surprising, given the sheer amount of variables in the game.

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I’m always reminded of the saying “Perfect is the enemy of good” - sometimes ‘good enough’ gear is all you need to have fun in this game.

Also, I fully realize that while having perfect item is helpful and deeply satisfactory for some, in the end you still need to hit the enemy, make correct tactical decisions etc. In a way, at some point small or even somewhat sizable gear imperfections are dwarfed by stupid decisions I make during combat. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Absolutely. Plus some things just aren’t predictable… like human behavior. There’s no way for GBX to know in advance how players are going to use and combine all the skills, gear and anointments in the game in a variety of situations against a multitude of enemies.

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