This game is a Min Maxer's worst nightmare

But that I meant that they are two very different things so a direct comparison is not apt. The issue is not whether either method is legitimate, but whether it’s right to expect a return for a given amount of effort. Trading is such a different mechanic to farming that direct comparison is misleading.

You misunderstand. I’m not looking to take offence at the word “demonizing” but just pointing out that it’s perhaps a bit extreme to apply that label to any form of criticism!

I guess this may be where we have the biggest difference as I think it’s a mistake to link reward with effort in an RNG game like that. That’s pretty much the point of my posts as I think people are misunderstanding how it works. And I’m not trying to be condescending, it’s just that the whole concept of effort=reward in terms of the gear received is a bit disconnected from the reward mechanics in the BL universe. I do understand it’s frustrating, but it’s exactly what the game promises to be fair

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It’s not entitlement to expect a franchise to evolve to keep up with its peers.

Right, and that is the exact problem. This is a loot based RPG, and other genre contemporaries have figured this out. Borderlands needs to adapt. You’re defending poor design IMO.

No offense intended, but it seems that you are the one that doesn’t quite understand the genre as a whole. Clearly, min/maxing and progression are things that don’t concern you (which is totally fine), but they do concern a lot of people that play these types of games; and most other games in this genre do it much, much better. I don’t disagree with you that I think overall drop rates are fine (excluding Proving Grounds and the CoS, which have terrible drop rates), but the dedicated drop rates are statistically miniscule compared to BL2. Personally, I would just like a way to reroll items to cut down on the RNG. This feature exists in literally every other loot based game that I have played, and it works. But again, this feature being absent is a prime example of the problem here, that GBX is behind the curve when compared to things most other loot games do well.

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Great topic!

I have a loooooooong list of items I’ve been farming and except for 5 different versions of the Lyuda I have not gotten any of the rest. Some of what I’m looking for are what you listed as well as Red Fang, Elemental Projector, Scorpio XL, Cutsman, Electric Banjo and It’s Piss.

It’s frustrating as you’d think you wouldn’t have to farm the same boss for days on end for a single item. I’ve been unable to complete a single build where I can say it’s perfect for what I was going after as I miss 1 or more pieces to do it.

I’m not sure if it’s Mayhem as I only run MH2 right now, or if it’s just that my luck sucks. I mean it did take me months longer to get Destiny’s Gjallarhorn than anybody else, so I know how it feels.

I disagree with the entire concept that a game developer would spend months designing an anointed weapon system with anointments for specific skills in specific classes that wildly effect the damage the weapon does, and then failed to factor that entire system in to their play balancing.

And unless you can show some factual proof that they did develop this entire anointment system only to totally ignore it with they make playbalancing adjustments to the game, then the only logical conclusion that anyone can arrive at is simply that they didn’t do as you are suggesting.

Now, on to proof. FACTUAL PROOF.

There you go. Two very specific examples of Gearbox altering play balancing for anointments. Undeniable proof that they factor it in to their playbalancing.

So, unless you can offer more definitive proof than that then the only logical conclusion is they absolutely do play balance around anointments. PERIOD. Any suggestions to the contrary must be supported with proof that the above statements from Gearbox are false and they do not make specific play balancing changes for anointments. Lacking that proof any claims to the contrary must be accepted as false. Deliberately so if the claims are going to continue to be made in defiance of Gearbox’s own official statements.

Good news in a month or so the level cap will raise and you can all start over from scratch. :frowning:

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That hotfix basically was an attempt to balance out character skills without doing a complete rework, which would require an update and so take longer. So I would not read too much into that.

Which is not the same as claiming that they exclusively balance around anointments, of course.

I would respectfully suggest that anointments are like glitch weapons in TPS - they’re there to add another dimension to loot, create interesting synergies with skills, and generally expand the options to players.

If - as seems to be the case - there is a perception that specific anointments on specific items (and particularly legendary ones) is essential for playing at the maximum difficulty currently available, that suggests that maybe the solution is a better balancing of the difficulty factors (and there are multiple threads on suggestions for how to tweak mayhem).

This is high time to move the discussion on from attempts to read the developer’s minds, however.

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You would think, but this is also the same dev that designs two entirely “end game” modes (PG and CoS) and then makes the drop rates for each mode horrific. So yeah…

Has this actually been confirmed?

Well communication from GB has been bad this time so no, I dont think we got a roadmap after the first one.

I actually completely forgot about the fact that a level cap increase will invalidate the majority of current gear for end game viability. This makes the RNG issue even more ridiculous.

Definitely not fed up. This game rains powerful gear down on us all the time, yet some stay frustrated because they haven’t gotten the mythical ‘God roll’ stats they’re looking for. Problem is that what’s perfect for you might be good enough for another and might be worthless to someone else (hence you naturally get an active trading market).

Having two or three specific stats on an item doesn’t make or break this game for me. There are so many ways to win, its mind-blowing and the community has just gotten started.

You already have a menu of options right now:

  1. make the best of what you find, OR
  2. keep farming as long as it takes to get the wanted gear and accept the reality that that could happen on your next run or in 10,000 runs because there’s no way for GBX to know what your mind considers perfect, OR
  3. trade with someone who has what you’re looking for.

Do we really need GBX to spend time and resources developing another option? I don’t think so.

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That’s quite a set of deductions there.

Things are rarely as black and white as you might think. The fact that they attempted to rebalance things suggests to me that they didn’t properly factor in the effect anointments would have. That’s not the same as saying they completely ignored them, by the way, which appears to be the strawman you’re creating, but it’s also not saying the game is purposely balanced around the anointments, any more than that it’s balanced around any other thing in the game. They’re just another mechanic to factor in, that’s all.

The constant tweaks are proof that they don’t have an accurate handle on the effects of everything they do. Which isn’t all that surprising, given the sheer amount of variables in the game.

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I’m always reminded of the saying “Perfect is the enemy of good” - sometimes ‘good enough’ gear is all you need to have fun in this game.

Also, I fully realize that while having perfect item is helpful and deeply satisfactory for some, in the end you still need to hit the enemy, make correct tactical decisions etc. In a way, at some point small or even somewhat sizable gear imperfections are dwarfed by stupid decisions I make during combat. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Absolutely. Plus some things just aren’t predictable… like human behavior. There’s no way for GBX to know in advance how players are going to use and combine all the skills, gear and anointments in the game in a variety of situations against a multitude of enemies.

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I gotta disagree the better your gear the less tactical you need to be to the point where you don’t need any tactics and can just run in guns a blazing if you have a perfect build. And to be brutally honest the only tactics in Borderlands is, are you in cover and not standing in a glowing thing.

I mean i guess it would be nice if there were a way to customize some of the items once you get them? Maybe if you could use eridium to reroll some stat or another? It would make the currency useful and fix this issue while still encouraging farming. I feel like this has been said many times, tho so…

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Crafting has popped up before in other threads, best option is have 1 for white stats but unable to change ammo usage (ion cannon etc), otherwise would go against patch for weapon. 2nd for anointed change. both cost eridum, but can only change anointed afix on anointed items, not put anonted afix on none anointed items.

doing that would still make people farm for gear and fix the trash we have know, so it’s more manageable.

I don’t think I am. Borderlands has a tried and tested formula and I don’t see that it should have to copy what others do. They’ve chosen a specific path; just because some don’t seem to like it doesn’t necessarily make it a mistake.

Destiny 2 is also a loot based shooter, for example, but it goes about it in a very different way. Which one is better is a matter of personal preference but I think there’s room for both.

But I’m not talking about the genre as a whole; I’m talking about Borderlands specifically and Borderlands has always been an RNG-based game which has never had a link between time invested and rewarding gear. I just don’t see what has given some people the impression that things would be different now.

I get what you’re saying but I’ll just have to disagree that it’s a problem from GBX’s perspective. That’s not to be dismissive of your concerns but there are enough contradictory threads on here to show that it’s absolutely impossible to please everyone even a fraction of the time. They’ve clearly chosen a design path which they feel gives them the best return while still keeping the original flavour of Borderlands. Not everyone will agree with that unfortunately but while that sadly makes it a problem for them it won’t necessarily make it a problem for the game as a whole

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Savage Lee is a guaranteed spawn. While he doesn’t always appear near the Fast Travel in the Divide, he always appears in the Marrowfields. Always.
Maybe you’re farming wrong. I’ve got over 8,000 hours in BL2 and will strongly attest that farming is much more reliable in BL2 than in BL3.

But I don’t really have a problem with BL3 farming myself, since my expectations are low. I fiddle with what I get and make it work.
–RoA

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Borderlands has a formula that was lifted directly from Diablo, to the point that it was often advertised as “Diablo with guns.” The last game came out in 2012, before the genre fully exploded and had games come along (Diablo 3, for example) that made a lot of QoL improvements and smart design choices that Borderlands would greatly benefit from.

You’re talking about one of the main games in a popular genre, it makes perfect sense to compare it to other games in the genre. A better (and probably the best) comparison than Destiny is Diablo 3, because Borderlands is basically the exact same type of loot game (RNG and not an MMO), just in an FPS style rather than top down dungeon crawler.

Like I said above, Diablo 3 is also an RNG-based game, literally in the exact same style. They have implemented all kinds of RNG reducing methods like re-rolls, gambling for specific items, and more. All of these things have been huge benefits to the loot system in that game, and they would be huge benefits to people in BL3.

But it is a problem for the game as a whole if it causes the long term players to become burnt out and move on to other games, which is exactly what is happening. I have a huge friends list of looter addicts on PS4 and I don’t see anyone play this game anymore, despite most of us loving Borderlands. Even this forum in general is nowhere near what it was back in the BL2 days a few months after launch.

Because it is 2020, not 2012. Other games that are exactly the same style as Borderlands have evolved and implemented these QoL improvements. I will never understand the argument of “Borderlands 1/2 didn’t have it, so why should 3?” Diablo 3 had a lot of things that Diablo 2 didn’t. Same with Destiny 2 vs Destiny 1. Same with Call of Duty Black Ops 3 vs Call of Duty Black Ops 1. Etc. Any product, whether its a game or a car or a television, should continue to evolve and improve upon itself upon future iterations. Do you want every FPS to still control like GoldenEye? BL3 feels very much stuck in the mud in terms of its loot system and progression.

Ultimately, I’m not sure why you are so against evolution. Implementing something small like a re-roll mechanic wouldn’t even affect you if you don’t want to use it, but you seem extremely resistant to change for some reason.

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