Every time I used it the same thing happened:

“Wow! a longer phaselock that also draws aggro and works perfectly with converge”

Invariably followed by:

“Damn surveyor/Rabid Stalker, hold still!!! …alright, screw this i’m gonna respec out of that skill”


If I had to choose only one or the other, I’d take Thoughtlock in a second. They’re different enough that I wouldn’t really say one was better than another; Thoughtlock just enables a play style that I find more enjoyable.


I just Thoughtlock’d Omnd-Omnd-Ohk so he starts fighting his brothers. And in a lovely twist of fate, the Witch Doctor that created him, then took his life!!



It’s so pleasing!! An absurdly underrated skill. Thanks for your post… gave me a warm glow

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Sorry guys, came to this super late but as I’ve never used it I figured it’s time to check it out. So the pertinent question is : why do all of your builds go 5/5 into Helios?

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It’s Helios or Immolate for me. I like Foresight so I usually spec that. Flicker isn’t powerful enough for my tastes.

So how I get down to Cloud Kill and then Ruin depends on circumstances. Immolate is great but unless I’m going down a lot I prefer Helios; it gets more done on the battlefield. It was buffed in the last update and does damage every time you Phaselock. Makes sense to me…


I always just went on faith that Flicker had some benefit but it seems like it is eschewed in favour of Helios. Better to ignore Flicker altogether?

Depends on your class mod to some extent. A L.Siren boosts Flicker, so 1 point to benefit from the bonus is not a huge loss. If you’re mainly running with Binder, Cat, or Nurse, though, you might chose otherwise.


I forsake it painfully, not because I have ingrained affection for it, but just because I first ‘discussed’ its usefulness as a skill with a real jackass on the Steam forums. It wasn’t a friendly chat but I reluctantly agree he had a point: Flicker isn’t wonderful. The amount increased in likelihood is multiplicative, so a percentage of the existing percent, rather than say 15% plus an additional 30%.

Like @VaultHunter101 says it’s worth a point if you’re rocking a Legendary Siren though.

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I rarely notice Helios without Sub Sequence, but I always take it. I never notice Flicker, and I don’t go down often enough for Immolate to matter, so there isn’t much motivation for me to not max Helios.


Thanks guys. Of course I just realized that I do only have 1 point in it to be buffed by the Siren COM. I’ve been away a few days and haven’t been playing :grin:
Still, I’ll look into maxing Helios for a while. I guess if you’re going to have a nova making a visual mess, make it BIG.


Think big :stuck_out_tongue: It’s something I never understand about people not choosing Blight Phoenix just because of the barrels… but still speccing Helios… I’ve kept an eye open when using both and though death by either is very straightforward to avoid, Helios has killed me via barrels more often!

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After my own heart. Screw the barrels , BP
is great if for no other reason than it’s cool.

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And it’s delicious with Life Tap, Maya’s most delicious skill

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I’ve come to spec Helios over Flicker- but I’ll never spec Blight Phoenix- never! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

… Why?

Okay - more confusion over here! What about all the phaselock-dependant skills : Sweet Release , Wreck , Elated , Converge , Sub-Sequence , Chain Reaction and…Helios!?!
I listed them all because I realize Thoughtlock may interact with each of them differently.

Edit : never mind. If I just did the research 1st…
“Converge and Helios both trigger on the Thoughtlocked target. Elated, Wreck, and Chain Reaction are all active for the duration of the Thoughtlock. If the Thoughtlocked target dies Sweet Release triggers.”

(BTW: I often put just one point into BP - for effect and supplementary Life Tap. I rarely if ever pop barrels)

Too easy to blow yourself up! Damn barrels everywhere :tired_face:

It’s good fun to use when skag bashing and Life Tap maxed out. The Maya melee build isn’t bad actually.

[quote=“Jefe, post:25, topic:1547307”]why do all of your builds go 5/5 into Helios?[/quote]I put five in there on one of my builds because she rocks Sub Sequence, so I get repeated application of Helios for any Thoughtlock throw. It’s not for everyone - lots of people prefer Immolate, but that’s not my cup of tea.

[quote=“Jefe, post:37, topic:1547307”]What about all the phaselock-dependant skills : Sweet Release , Wreck , Elated , Converge , Sub-Sequence , Chain Reaction and…Helios!?![/quote]I can’t imagine using Thoughtlock without 5/5 in Sub Sequence, so Converge and Sweet Release are givens, since they will trigger repeatedly with every fresh acquisition/death. Wreck, Elated, and Chain Reaction, which are only active while a target is locked, are still handy.

If I need the health from Elated, I’ll grab a big guy from the mob, and ignore him while I lay into the rest of the chumps; he’ll tank the damage coming off Chain Reaction that is otherwise killing the rest, and I get sustained Elated, Wreck, and Chain Reaction. If not, I use the brief break between Sub Sequence acquisitions to reload so I can take full advantage of Wreck and Chain Reaction while they’re up.

Avoiding barrels with Blight Phoenix (and Scorn for that matter) comes with basic (I think?) situational awareness:

  • What is my exit strategy? If some Ultimate Badass or Rabid x comes at me? Even if my exit strategy is “face tank them!”, I should know that going in.
  • What environmental hazards are around? Barrels? Plant life? Cliffs? Train tracks? Rock crushers? Elemental geysers? Everything Murderlin throws at me? How at risk am I from eating these at any given time?
  • What enemy health types and attack modes am I going to have to counter here?
  • From what directions can enemies come at me from wherever I am? Can I be flanked? Can they sneak up behind me? Come from underground or the air?

I don’t strictly adhere to these, or I’d be taking the safest, most perfect min/maxed route through every map, and that would get boring. That challenge I like to do where I play King of the Hill in the middle of the Thresher nest by Lake Shining Horizons? There’s no exit strategy: they die or I die. A couple characters do not have an effective defense against Rift Threshers or Ultimate Badass Pyre Threshers, other than a teeny bit of cover (like a chair and an ammo barrel). If there were barrels anywhere nearby, they would get popped well before I took the hill though.


Sage words all of them :+1:
I’m also not too chuffed with Immolate. It seems like one needs to go 10/5 to really exploit it - and even then it’s a cheap way to kill. To be honest, I’m sure it has helped me out from time to time though.