Thoughts on Incursion changes

I agree. It’s way too easy to destroy the sentry even with a minion wave AND the whole enemy team standing between you and it. I had a match earlier where my team took out the first sentry within the first five minutes against a team much better than us. They proceeded to roll over us, but neither of the first sentries put up much of a fight.

I also agree. I think the sentry should have more health and do more damage - both should scale like the minions at the four minute marks. That way the sentries are still dangerous, but can be killed with a minion wave.


I just don’t understand their motives with this game. They do so many changes that aren’t even relevant/demanded and they just ignore balance changes that are obviously the real problem.

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At this point, It feels the devs are throwing random features/changes and hope they provide positive outcomes. It’s safe to assume that one of their biggest issue, matchmaking can not be fixed. So, they hide CR to mask the problem or at least make it less noticeable.

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The amount of Boldurs I see who just go right up to the sentry and circle strafe it with near impunity is getting a little ridiculous. They know the sentry can’t kill them, and they can dash right out if the enemy team takes notice. That shouldn’t happen. Heck, even I can easily bounce around the sentry as squishy little Mell, even if I get hit it won’t KO me and I’ll have plenty of time to get out of dodge before it charges another shot.

Please return the sentries to their former glory. They deserve to pose a threat and help their team, not just be a small speedbump between winning or losing.


It’s the fact that nothing acts the way it used to. Why would you do that, as a developer?

Yeah I do agree that they changed too much all at once. I know it’s because updates are finicky and costly on consoles, but the usual cycle of identify problem -> tweak problematic stats or mechanics -> receive feedback and reevaluate isn’t happening, which is the crux of good balancing. There’s also the issue that, from what I can tell*, they seem to rely soley on hard data without really considering the context of said data or why it might be caused. Numbers and statistics can’t tell a whole story on their own. I can only assume this is why a lot of the updates or rebalancing seems out of left field (change to the sentry’s attack) or too nuclear (El Dragon).

In an ideal world, I would have liked to see the minions get buffed with no change to the sentry or addition of the shepherd bot yet, then see if they’re still getting shredded after considering player feedback. If they are, then look into nerfing the AoEs or adding the shepherd bot. If they’re still killed too easily, add whatever wasn’t added in the previous step. This would have given time for the playerbase to adjust and led to more focused, precise changes that address the issues instead of simply replacing them with new ones.

Steam is friendlier regarding updating games, perhaps the PC edition could be used to trial new changes before sending them to consoles. Some games do it that way, so they can get more feedback on changes before setting them in stone. With, of course, some consideration to how differently the platforms perform and play. I’m not sure how viable such a set up would be from GBX’s standpoint though. Could be completely undoable for all I know.

*Please do not take everything I say as hard fact. I’m only going off what I can infer and read.


How would it be a come back if you still had your first Sentry?

Ugh i like how gbx balance things. I guess what players want is a tdm where they can lvl up fast; thats faceoff.


The Incursion you and others loved was never meant to exist. Shepherds were always part of the deal. And tbh, I never feel like I’m fighting minions that much, although I usually still have most minions

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There seems to be a lot of complaining here :confused: To be honest, if you have trouble with the minions or the thralls, that’s more of a sign you need more practice then the game being unbalanced. the tsentry isn’t meant to defend itself for you, its supposed to help defend itself WITH you. if you’ve got minion waves backed up and a couple of enemy battleborn there, the sentry is not supposed to be equipped to deal with that. if there is just one there and he is able to take down all your buildables and the sentry without your team doing something about it, again that’s not on the sentry, that is on your team.


Lets be honest, if your team chosed a stupid composition, minions will be a problem.

To many tanks.
To many healers.
To many snipers.
To many brawlers.

I have seen this problem, ppl cant chose their favorit character anymore… They need to think about what the team lack/needs.

Also i have a question: who are wave cleaners?
Orendi, ernest, benedict(?) Who else?


The issue is that the sentry is supposed to help fight and it’s practically useless, not that players expect the sentry to kill everything for

e.g. Your teammates are supposed to help you win, but Miko doesn’t know he can heal and Rath is 0 and 27.

But yes, a lot of things can be blamed on the players simply not protecting the sentry. Like Kleese killing it with Energy Rifts, for example.

Mike (miko?) can heal? I guess you got autocorrected.

Ugh im so confused… I like the new way the sentry attacks, less frustrating to get sniped. But is usless when it hits 1 every 10 shots, im not sure if increase its dmg would be the answear.

When your team is losing and your sentry cant defend itself is frustrating… Maybe the sentry is not suppous to defend itself but give some back up to battleborns.


Thorn and Oscar Mike used to be high on that list as well. They can still do it now, just not at near the speed of those three. People are also starting to lump Kid Ultra into that category because of his triple rocket and respectable splash, but I don’t know. He’s good at a number of things, but doesn’t quite excel at any of them. Save stunning a team once he hits lvl 9. So, he can waveclear but I hesitate to dedicate him to that category.

Alani, Marquis, Kelvin, Galilea, Toby. Those are other characters I’d put in the quasi-lane clearer category. They can do it, but it takes a bit of effort and time.

Edit: Forgot about Kleese. I’d put him firmly into the quasi category. The difference being lvl and the ability to keep rifts on the field. If he doesn’t have those, minions walk right by him. If he does, he can dead stop a Meltdown lane with zero effort.


Lol medic Oscar Mike OP, nerf plz

Kid Ultra is strong in wave clear because of the Bolas, not just because of the minor splash damage on his rockets. There aren’t any other characters who can damage over time in a solid wide line like that (besides Alani but the damage isn’t significant unless she took Wave Shock) which can be very useful if the wave has started stringing out from blade bots chasing after players and what not.


Did anyone else noticed how fast this game changed?!

I understand why some ppl quited, its like a new change.

Is there a way to make an oficial petición to give thorn and OM AoE size back? I dont mind the new duration/dmg.

Anyone knows if right lvl2 OM skill worth it? Everytime i try it is hard to land and its dmg dosent seems to worth the dificulty to use

His bolas add a nice bonus, but I find the slow more effective in wave clear than the damage. Especially after a few waves have passed and the enemies have gotten tougher. The slow in combination with the dot damage is the precursor to his standard triple shot attack which is what actually kills the wave, not the skill he can only use once.

That’s why I hesitate to put him into the dedicated wave clear category. His Bolas work similarly to Orendi’s shadowpillar, but she can spam it he can’t. The other two do even more damage to the entire wave and do it with their standard attack. Stacking is nice, but not necessary.

I use bolas target + voxis core and indeed kid ultra is rly good clearing waves

It’s not about having trouble with the minions/thralls, it’s about changing the whole dynamic of the mode. Incursion is simply another meltdown variation at the moment. Those that detest meltdown, now dislike incursion because of its similarities with the minions.

Previously, team coordination and individual player’s skill were crucial to push and defeat the opponents. Now, there’s a much less need of that due to the consistant minion help you get. This is the only reason why you see beginners been able to push much more experienced/skilled players. In a real pvp environment, that should never be case. The minions win the matches and not the players. This is one way of how the devs mask the matchmaking problem.

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