Thx GBX - MH4 is wonderful compared to MH3 + Why I feel MH4 is not too 'Bullet Spongy'

“Zane requires a perfect roll like on any weapon and gear” --> to compete to other classes dmg output (amara and moze are on a total different level, specially amara), i meant this.

As i said, the problem is not M4 doable or not, the problem is that with amara you press your action skill, shoot, boom boss down, 1/2 min. Try it with zane :smiley: with your magnificent lvl 47 blue weapon :smiley:

They have to stop to release content until they fix and balance classes. I know that is kind impossibile to make all at the same level, but now we are at the opposite, too much difference in terms of dps.

If you do switch things off of terror, some of the new anointments are just ridiculous for rakk attack builds. Particular the +50%-of-whatever-type-elemental damage on action skill end, which can spawn on both grenades and shields now. 100% uptime on 100% extra damage of whatever elements you have the gear for. kinda glass canon but what a brainstormer does with this setup is obscene

I don’t think the community has fully processed the new anointments, which are one of the ways we are intended to offset the difficulty increase. I have mixed feeling about some of the decision GB is making but the idea that mayhem 4 can’t be done is definitely inaccurate


why… go to youtube and you’ll find MANY videos…

i don’t have to prove anything… i allready told you, turning everything into a bulletsponge isn’t hard… it just take more time…

if anything, M4 makes it easier because you get a 1! buff and the enemy gets 1! buff…

I can’t wait to get my hands on that new Rakk class mod. I have some great ideas to abuse that one. <3

ok :wink: ignore my answer then haha… i don’t play the other vault hunters anymore :smiley: zane is the most fun for me (and like i said in other parts, M4 is more of an annoyance then it’s increased difficulty haha)

Yeah my approach is that I find a Mayhem modifier that’s testing my build, and just keep running through and tweaking without save quitting.

Loads of people often focus on that you can re-roll and make the modifiers too easy M1-3.

But you can also strategically stretch builds and assess weapons, anointments and terror in a more controlled way, by just staying with a tougher one, and not save quitting. Especially without Guardian Ranks. It isolates variables, and lets me test better

Ideally I’d like to be able to toggle off each bonus stat individually. And apply to test conditions, to sense the mechanics even more.

But I’m someone who likes doing that…


People said the exact same thing when OP levels were released on BL2. Yet now it’s looked at with selective memory and rose covered glasses.

Giving things more health so you actually have to fight it, rather than killing it in a few seconds, is the very definition of increased difficulty.


I think the above bares repeating. I’ve bolded some words that are crucial to the argument being made.

Here is another choice quote that is foundational.

Here is my take and why these quotes are important.

Borderlands 3 is a looter/shooter with crazy and amazing gear. Normal mode introduced us to the game and its core mechanics which is basically shooting and looting and spending skill points to make the loot more effective. Let me repeat and simplify what I just said. We shoot to get loot which we then use to do more shooting for lots more looting.

TVHM and the Mayhem levels (up to 3) is where we got the best versions of all that loot. So here we are, we have all this loot and nothing in the game challenges us anymore. So along comes M4 and Maliwan Takedown. They are the payoff vault hunters. M4 is where you take your sick boss murdering and Slaughter Shaft clearing builds for a “real” test. It’s ridiculous to complain about needing high end gear, including terror gear, to engage with this end game content. Let me say it a different more succinct way. It seems to me that the point of collecting all this high end loot is to have a place in the game where that loot is ABSOLUTELY necessary!

Before I shut up I briefly want harp on the terror gear anti argument at least one person has made in this thread already. :grin:

Soooo many people complained about the uselessness of terror anointed gear because the event was temporary and that the anoinments weren’t even good, and yada, yada, yada, whine :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:. One of the “observations” that JUST popped into my head from someone was how useless the ammo regen terror anointment was because they never had any trouble finding ammo. I say to those who share that view, please give soloing Maliwan Takedown a try without some form of ammo regen. The fact is you don’t have to use terror but terror certainly means you have more options. And that’s the point and it’s always been the point. We have all this gear with all these anointments, which means we have a ton of options.

And finally, you don’t have to play this content if you don’t want to. Borderlands 3 is SIGNIFICANTLY better than any previous Borderlands in the amount of choices it gives you to play. It’s story is not better, it’s certainly not as funny, but it’s for me at least, DEFINITELY more fun! And fun is why I play video games. :grin:

Love, peace, and hair grease, I’m out!:stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:


totally agree with this. its an optional difficulty for those who have perfected builds and synergies as has been use the lower mayhem modes for the experience to build your character appropriately and gear up, raising the mayhem level as you get comfortable with the current one.

it does appear that folks just want to be able to jump to the highest difficulty straight away without putting in the legwork.

one doesnt for example join the gym and expect to bench press 140kg straight away - it takes time and effort to reach a goal, but the sense of achievement when it all comes together is fabulous.


You make it sound as if Gearbox actually had a plan in mind when they introduced Terror mechanics, made that event quite a bit longer than just a weekend in the end of October, and even let it extend beyond Maliwan Takedown intro.

Hmm, I wonder why that is… May be they are not as clueless as many posters here insist. :wink:

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Yeah me and @studdugie actually had this convo in Discord. We both feel that’s exactly what they intended. I even said this same thing in comments a month ago, which is why I farmed so hard to collect the gear.

I don’t really care for it 1 way or the other it hasn’t been to diffcult for the most part just wish gear wasnt locked behind it.

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I think the communication to the player base, and how they introduce such patches doesn’t necessarily strick me as the opposite of clueless…

I can confirm that Traunt indeed isnt hard and prolonging the fight doesnt change the difficulty. There are a few special moves to look out for. When I killed him the first few times I had a throw-together build that required to chip away his shield over 5 minutes. That was the old M3. Learn his moves, anticipate or time special actions and deal with the adds.

Once you have that down Traunt isnt challenging. Giving him more health making him more durable doesnt change the fight one bit.

But I can agree that M4 is a step in the right direction. I still hope Mayhem will justify its name one day. Maybe Mayhem 2.0 will do that.

And a great OP kabflash, thanks for the effort man /thumbsup


Again, Borderlands 3 is a looter/shooter so if there is no loot to reward you for the shoot then what is the incentive to do the activity? The entire Borderlands franchise is built around this core concept so it shouldn’t be a surprise that loot would be locked behind it. That said, content specific loot isn’t the only incentive obviously. :smile:

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“Hard” is an extremely relative term. I’m just trying to say it’s “harder” when you have to learn the moves and avoid them compared to on MH3 I can kill him with 2 mags of a cutsman without even moving into the arena and completely ignore his mechanics. I didn’t even know what they were until I tackled it on MH4. Admittedly I still haven’t fought him very much but I did make a few mistakes fighting him that ended in my death on MH4.

Ah yes, thats true. Me I always make an effort to figure out game mechanics (probably a conditioning from my WoW days…) so going to Traunt M4 just makes the fight “longer” but not in any way more difficult or challenging…provided you react accordingly (dont stand in glowing ■■■■ basically…surviving_101)


Right, execution could be better, but I am mostly pointing out that there was (most likely) a reasonably decent strategy behind it.

I did wonder a lot WHY a Halloween event extends beyond Thanksgiving, which did appear excessive. I think we may have an explanation now. But it’s all speculation anyway. :slight_smile:

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This is true… And it was me just being pedantic…

Although it would be nice if the online streamers tied closest to the devs could push out more game-mechanic focused information. Game philosophy and what to expect in a patch, and how to best use time while bugs are ironing out… And to actually expect them…

That’s why I relentlessly argue that the focus should not be on nerfing, but actually buffing and how to do it well… to reach clearly laid out goals… Thats not my experience, but maybe I have to just visit gearbox and chat over a coffee to get that info…

What so many community members do on here voluntarily to provide the necessary information is the model that they should adopt…


Ummm well I hate to put it this way, but it doesn’t come across like that at all. You’re trying to say the difficulty feels increased - but by showing there’s no bullet sponginess to the enemies you’re showing that it’s accomplishable by anyone.

Which is the biggest draw back to M4. When folks wanted actual difficulty instead of random modifiers - the biggest thing they asked for was a straight up boost to enemies toughness. That’s why M4 is less mayhem and more bullet sponge (even if it doesn’t feel so to some, fact remains y’all can use less ammo than that on M3).

Mayhem still hasn’t been introduced to the series, and difficulty is not increased by doing the same content with more enemy health. If UVHM is introduced I hope that enemy AI is actually enhanced - because until enemies can react to our play styles difficulty won’t feel increased.

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