#10

so let me get this straight, you want all the characters unlocked from the start??? that takes the grind out of the game. a new character is a pretty big thing to unlock cuz you never know if that character might be your best character. i reached lvl 40 b4 i beat all the missions on advanced to unlock ghalt. the command rank goes up pretty fast especially if your completing the challanges that give you like 500cp.

#11

Why not have them unlocked from the start? As I said, there’s really enough other stuff to grind towards, and GB can come up with other rewards for things that are currently character unlocks, and even add more into the game as a result. Getting gold all all missions with every character to unlock an awesome skin for everyone, I’d do that. Getting gold on all advanced missions gives a legendary gear box, I’d jump into that.

I know I personally would have preferred to have Ghalt from the start to tinker around with than trying to get silver in all advanced missions (ended up getting to 40 first), then just going 'meh, I don’t think he was worth the wait".

#12

I think I have a solution - the characters are locked probably because of pve. but in pvp its beneficial to have access to all characters. why not remove the locks for pvp only?

#13

You can already grind Commander rank to get Commander boxes. Grind character levels for helix options, and part of the stuff to get the black and purple skin. Grind lore challenges for lore (surprise surprise), a loot box, a specific character legendary, and the other part for the black and purple skin. Grind missions for legendaries and gear. Grind missions and pvp for credits to get gear boxes…

Does grinding for characters really make the game that much better than if you could experience each from the beginning?

#14

I’m not sure if the character unlocks will ever need to removed.
The two primary benefits that you get with the character locks are:
1.) The starting characters are nicely balanced across multiple roles to allow a player to start to get a feel for the game.

This game isn’t like Street Fighter, Mortal Combat, Soul Caliber, Smash Brothers, ect. where you have iconic characters that anyone familiar with the franchise would know how to play.

This is a brand new type of game (FPS with MOBA qualities) with brand new characters and brand new ways to play. So because this game can be overwhelming for first-time players it is important to provide them with some ‘basic’ characters that can help better prepare them for this game and the roles that are available.

2.) A lot of people like achievements and unlocking characters is definitely a nice reward for playing the game, especially if you specifically do something to unlock a particular character.

Now the two above items are generic reasons for the character locks, but I’m going to bring my own personal BB experience into play.

When they finally announced all of the characters, the three that I most wanted to play were Caldarius, Kleese, & Ghalt. (Was bummed when I found out that Kleese and Ghalt were two of the hardest to unlock)

I wasn’t really enamoured with any of the starting characters, but once I gave a few of them a spin in the Beta I found myself really enjoying Orendi.

I could be wrong, but I would guess that most gamers, when they find a character they like, will want to get that character up to level 12 to get all of the mutations, and also perhaps complete all the lore to get the character-specific legendary.

So when I started the game, I first focused on Orendi. Getting her to level 12, and getting her lore challenges.
By that time I had unlocked Caldarius a long time ago.
So then I switched over to Caldarius and took him to level 12 and unlocked his lore.

It was while playing Orendi in Meltdown that I decided that I also wanted to get good at a character that could hold a lane better in Meltdown.

So after I finished with Caldarius, I gave Boldur a shot and loved him. So I took him up to Level 12. (Don’t have his last lore challenge to play with an all-Eldrid team)

By that time I had unlocked Kleese. I gave him a spin and loved him, and took him to Level 12.
Once I had Kleese up to level 12, I had long past unlocked Ghalt.

I’ve been running Ghalt (level 10 now) on PVE and not having as much fun with him. I know I’ll enjoy him more in PvP, but if I had jumped straight to Ghalt (if he had been unlocked from the start) I would have been really disappointed in playing him. (Part of the problem is that I had been farming Renegade with Kleese, and Kleese is a monster on that level, and Ghalt doesn’t have any sort of the area control that Kleese does…which made the transition to Ghalt hard)

At this point, out of the 26 Battleborn, there are 16 which I haven’t even played a single time…and I’m currently Command Rank 65.

Anyway, long story short…all you have to do is find a couple of characters that you like to play and level them up to 12 to get their final mutation…and by that time you’ll be hitting the mid-30s for command rank…which will of course have unlocked the majority of the characters.

So if other players do the same thing that I did (focus on a character they like) they’ll find themselves having unlocked all of the characters before even having the time to check them all out.

1 Like
#15

Just like @deltaomikronny said, it felt like a bigger achievement to unlock characters when I did it.
As a character based game, having all characters unlocked would suck the fun out of leveling up. Unlocking a specific character feels like a greater reward than if I had gotten a random taunt or skin.

1 Like
#16

Same thing with me, I picked a few characters I enjoyed and leveled them up. Before I unlocked Attikus I had been switching back and forth between characters, then I fell in love with his simple smash and repeat playstyle for PvE and maxed him out! OM, WF are at 12 each and Toby I’m working on. Command rank 45 right now, and I’ve only played as 4 characters repeatedly. It’s a lot easier to level up than I had originally thought and I feel like getting to CR40 was in the back of my mind at the point when I hit it.

#17

To have 26 characters (30 eventually) unlocked from the start is too much for newcomers. Battleborn characters are more complex to play than in other games because of the helix upgrades and the plethora of gear and loadout options. On top of that, some (many?) newcomers take some adjustment to this being a team-based objectives game and not a FPS shooter where lots of kills is the most important thing.

The current setup IMO is the best. There’s a selection of balanced characters available at the start for people to get to grips with, giving them something to focus on whilst they begin to get to grips with the game. The initial unlocks after that don’t take long and quite a few can be achieved more quickly than by command rank unlock. Then of course there’s the sense of achievement when you do unlock a newly character and begin to play them and learn their strengths and weaknesses.

It works, most people seem happy with it and so it should stay as it is (though if Gearbox want to sell a quick unlock pack just like Dice did for Battlefield 4) for real money then I wouldn’t object to that - you want unlocks that badly, you pay for them).

#18

Even fighting games don’t have all the characters unlocked from the beginning. That’s part of what makes playing a game fun isnt it? Getting some sort of reward and striving towards new things?

I kind of wish I didn’t have the hero keys given to me with the season pass. I would have liked to have had to work for Alani.

But then again I enjoy that grind, not everyone does I guess.

1 Like
#19

“But it takes away the grind!”

Yes. Yes it does. And what a great reason to remove character locks! (Or, at the very least, the locks on Ghalt, Kleese, and Deande.)

Anecdote: I have a buddy who games maybe 4 hours a week, tops. He has expressed interest in many locked characters, but, 4 hours a week. So, what has he decided we should play this week? Co-op for Halo 5. This is a guy who rarely buys video games, and considered BB a day one buy from the beta (largely due to the cast). He ended up waiting for the sale instead because of the high amount of locked characters.

Is he an outlier? Absolutely. Is locking more than half of your cast in a game advertised (lol) as a “hero shooter” a bad way to build and keep a player base? Absolutely.

OP has already said it: there are plenty of other things for those who (for some reason) love “the grind”. But making people wait for up to 40 hours of game-time to find a character that speaks to them, in a character-driven game, no less, is nucking futs.

#20

I don’t necessarily ‘love the grind’, but if they made all of the characters available at the same time it would cause more problems than it would solve. It’s a brand-new type of game with a larger-than-normal learning curve. You need people to ease into the game with ‘basic’ characters first.

Also, it takes a good hour or two on any one character before you can even get a good feel for that character to determine if you like the character or not. If you put in just the minimal amount of effort to get a feel for each of those starting characters, you’ll have unlocked another 5-6 by that time. And all you have to do is find one character that you like that you want to progress to level 12, and you’ll have half the roster unlocked by the time you finish that up.

I don’t see how having an unlock mechanism would prevent someone who purchased the game from playing the game.
As mentioned in my earlier response…the characters I was most interested in when finally revealed were Caldarius, Kleese, & Ghalt.
I’ve taken Orendi, Caldarius, Boldur, & Kleese up to at least level 12. Ghalt I’m at level 10, and he is by far my least favorite of the characters I’ve put time into.

Had I started out with Ghalt right from the start…I would have been less enthusiastic about this game.

#21

Locked heroes is like the biggest longevity this game has right now. I know I wouldn’t have played 200 hours if I could just use any hero. Unlocks are why I keep coming back. I mean I love the game, so that’s the biggest reason I keep playing. However, when I’m thinking “just one or two more games!” it’s because I want that extra step towards an unlock. Whether it’s another hero, the lore, a challenge, or skins. Otherwise I’d play 1 or 2 full matches and break or quit for the day. Playing a match as 100 command rank and lvl 15 character rank is soooo unrewarding at the end. You do great and you’re all pumped…then nothing. No experience, just some tragically low amounts of credits and a stat board. We need MORE things to unlock in my opinion.
cough cough Tier 2 skins!!!

2 Likes
#22

They have the ease of use for every character posted on the command section and character select screens. People could easily use those to help with the learning curve. And if the locks are based on learning curve, then why is someone like Melka (an “easy” character) locked behind the heliosphere, while harder to use characters like caldarius and ISIC are unlocked after the first three levels?

You say that having Ghalt early on would have hurt your enjoyment of the game, presumably because you thought you’d like him and didn’t. But that is subjective. What about those who don’t really like the starring cast, want to try a few specific high-lock characters, and don’t have anywhere near the time to get 5 characters past level 10 to do so?

I have never seen this many characters locked in a game that is character based. Never.

To the person who said unlocks are the reason for the game’s longevity, and why you’ve dumped 200 hours into the game: ignoring the fact that there’s more to unlock than the characters themselves, grind = longevity doesn’t really speak well for the actual gameplay itself, does it? (Of course, I actually think the gameplay is great, and disagree completely with your assertion.)

#23

I don’t want to remove the locks, but I would support lowering the requirements a bit, or providing alternate methods of unlock.

Simply put: some characters are harder to play than others.

The game should start you out with a handful of simple characters so that you can focus on learning the game modes, map layouts, and how to collect shards, and how I mine for fish? Oscar Mike is the poster boy for this concept. His skill set is so vanilla that any one who’s ever played a video game in their life will innately understand OMs mechanics.

More complex heroes with interlocking skills like Boldur or Ghalt can be unlocked once you’ve become efficient with the basics.

#24

Easing new players into a unique character driven game isn’t ideal. Not to mention what is ‘easier’ is completely subjective. Someone coming with a lot of FPS experience may find Oscar Mike ‘easier’, whereas someone coming from with MOBA experience may find characters with skill shots like Alani ‘easier’.

But new players don’t want to jump into what is ‘easier’, they want to experience what they consider to be fun. Also, what would make playing a character like Ghalt easier to play; playing Oscar Mike or Orendi (for example) until reaching one of the two required unlocks? Or getting to play currently locked characters in missions and PVP from the very beginning learning from mistakes while at the same time unlocking their helixes?

1 Like
#25

I see where you’re coming from, and you have several good points.

Yes, there can be several definitions of easy depending on the player, and all of those definitions should be covered by the default unlocked characters. (or as many as possible)

And certain advanced characters are more similar to certain easier ones, so it would make sense to form a logical progression chain of unlocks. Playing OM could unlock WF and Ghalt, as an example (not that the skills are identical, but close enough that playing one will help with the others)

Still, I don’t think having everyone unlocked from the start is a good idea. You can reduce the requirements, sure, but have that progression system in place for people

#26

I understand where OP is coming from. Especially when you think about how all characters are supposed to be balanced instead of the unlockable ones being stronger. It makes sense. Why would I want to unlock a character, aesthetics aside, if they’re not better than the ones I have? Solid argument and I’ve felt that for many games.

However, the requirements are already super easy (other than advanced HelioPhage) and getting to command rank 40 goes by insanely quick. I just hit command rank 100 and now I feel like I have less to do other than max out characters. I wish our XP turned into credits but that’s another thread. I love the grind.

Someone that can only play a few hours a week shouldn’t blame the game for not being easy enough. Now in certain games I will say “ain’t nobody got time for that!” But Battleborn is different. It’s easily playable and fun from the beginning. Someone playing only a few hours a week I would think that the game would last longer for them. And that should be a good thing, right? If that person enjoys the game then it shouldn’t matter how long it takes them to unlock things.

Battleborn offers a lot of “free” content. I’d rather have the option of unlocking things in game rather than buying them like other games. Gearbox could’ve gone that route.

Again, I don’t think the requirements for new characters is outrageous nor unreasonable. I don’t think any character locks should ever be removed. Just like the price drop, it would be a slap in the face to those that went the lengths to play enough or get the requirements.

I love the feeling of unlocking things!

1 Like
#27

i feel like the character locks should be left alone and we’re just overthinking the entire idea. it didn’t take that long to unlock all characters through gameplay. the most i’d say is two weeks and i don’t even play everyday.

#28

whether or not the next character is stronger when unlocked, it shouldn’t matter because it’s a different character with different abilties/playstyle… sometimes it’s good to make goals just to want to play that character, especially if it’s your fav.

#29

Exactly