To the developers and balance team

I have been playing bb since the absolute second the closed test was available. I also played in the open beta as well. I also have many, many hours logged on two different accounts in the main game. I have played countless public games, numerous private matches, and limited tournament play. I have a semi extensive pvp experience. These are some things that I am offering up as feedback. I apologize in advance if some of these suggestions or observations have already been noted elsewhere, or are already well on your radar.

Firstly I will start with the queue situation. Noteworthy, I play on xb1 for what it is worth.
The queues need to change. Bots battle is the exact same thing as a private match without players, with the exception of lore completion. So rather than eating up a queue, just allow lore completion in private matches. My personal opinion is that some achievements, lore, titles, etc should only be attainable through actual pvp, but at the end of the day I could really care less.

Solo duo queue is an incredible idea. The main issue with the queue is that very few people are actually really using it as intended. They are matching with their buddies and backing out if they dont get them. I do not think people are doing it because they want to smoke randoms, but rather just want to play with their friends when regular incursion is not an option. Simple fix is to just always have solo duo and regular incursion present. Solves the whole problem.

So what about the draft? Draft is typically a 5v5 premade v premade game mode. This game mode can also just be a regular queue, but they need to tweak it, which i will discuss later in this thread.

Lastly is quick match. Allow quickmatch to exist the exact same way that it has. There is nothing wrong with having 4 queues. It won’t further split the playerbase, people will still play what they want to play. Forcing portions of groups of people into games they don’t want to play does not solve anything.

Another thing I want to briefly touch on is character balance. I have seen broken characters come and go. I have seen every nerf, sometimes really necessary, sometimes making no sense. Bring back melka–we need more choices. Bring back el dragon to some degree. Currently kelvin has a better skill every 10 seconds or so than el dragon’s ult, and about 15x the survivability and kill potential. El dragon is meant to kill, while kelvin is meant to tank. Kelvin currently does entirely too much damage. His one second stun was exactly where he should have stayed. Him not being about to 1v1 characters was exactly what he should have been like from the start–he is a tank. Your tanks in general blur the lines far too much. They are supposed to be very weak offensively, but very hard to kill.

Let’s talk about beatrix for a moment. A friend told me that you guys said that you are having a look at her, and that is great. With the exception of OG gali, there has never been a more broken character, and that is saying a lot. I know that you guys look at data, but I think you are looking at too much data that is irrelevant. Just look at the data of the top 1000 players from all platforms combined. You can establish that however you wish, be it win pct, kdr, etc. Look at who they ban in their private matches, look at who does well and who does not.

My next observation is in regards to the feature that allows us to see the other team’s picks. This is a great idea, but it needs a tweak. Good players just wait til the end and never actually pick til the last second. That basically removes the whole mechanic. I am not entirely sure how to fix this problem. Something needs to change so people actually can use the feature as intended.

Last, but not least, I want to talk about gear, specifically legendary gear. What exactly were you going for here? Is it competitive, or is it casual? Is the gear there because you are the makers of borderlands? In your own tournaments, you banned legendary gear. In every league, tournament and private match, legendary gear is banned. Wouldn’t it be logical to look at the root cause of this and ascertain that the exact same conditions are present in a public game? The same reasons are also present? I think that legendary gear is something that belongs in quick match only, but I am willing to settle for having one competitive playlist–probably the draft–where there is no legendary gear allowed. It allows players to outperform their opponents simply because of their gear. I have heard the argument about cost and the sacrifices that give a team running cheap gear, but with the xp nerf to buildables, that is no longer an argument. You can only level to 10 anyways, so I never saw the point of that to begin with. Just turtle til you get your legendaries up and back then just catch up in levels. Now there is no catching up. You just watch that team activate their bolas and symbiotics and watch it all just swing in their direction. Please stop changing the gear and just take it out in incursion playlists


Just a little remark regarding that: It isn’t.

Private bot matches can only be played with people you invite to your lobby and unless you want to add the whole playerbase to your friends list (or whatever it is called on consoles) you have troubles to find other persons to play with. I don’t play Bots Battle for the rewards, I play it to get into a quick game with other people to play for a bit. It’s just for fun and a way I can play any character without having to worry about team composition, etc.

Also, people need a place where they can train to coordinate with a team of real people (not Bots on their team). I’ve met so many people in this game who don’t get the concept of looking after the other players and that’s a guaranteed loss in PvP. You can win real PvP games without using mics (even casuals like me did that not only once), but you have to know the maps, gamemodes and need to have some experience in working with other people. If you have bots on your team you can’t learn that. Lone wolf behaviour works with and against bots, but only there. It already doesn’t work anymore if you have some people on your team (e.g., allied bots don’t run, you can grab any shard on the map and may be successful with a way more expensive loadout that way).

I don’t really care about titles (and I don’t think I will ever use anything else than Thrall, because I like the icon), I like getting better access to the lore (because knowing a characters backstory doesn’t really give you an advantage in any mode and I still think all of them should be doable in PvE and PvP without touching the other one) and I don’t care about the lore legendaries, because I don’t use legendaries (most are underwhelming for their price, some make the game too easy).


You did an amazing job summing up a lot of information. GBX, I agree with 99% of this post.

Your 2 solutions towards those separate queues are contradicting each other.

I play BB almost every night during weekdays and I haven’t notice people backing out to ge teamed with their friends. They might have a whole different reason. For example I leave queue when I feel I want to be in a decent team. If I recognize a bad player by their name or players have amateur pvp titles then I leave and re-enter queue. I have met others that have told me they do the same within Xbox1 platform.

I like less queues. It really helps the small community that remains

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@wrriddle already expressed very well why Bots Battle is NOT simply private PvP (and nailed the differences completely). I’m just going to add that having a Bots Battle queue is not really a problem. People play Bots Battle because that’s what they want to play; taking the queue away (or hiding it in “Training” as some have suggested) won’t cause the number of players queuing for regular PvP modes to magically increase.

There’s room in the UI for four queues in each mode. The limiting factor is not the presence or absence of any particular queue, it’s the size of the player base. Taking away popular modes won’t increase the player base.


I disagree that it is contradictory. I am saying that they should never eat up a spot for the most popular queues for any queue. That just makes common sense. Regular incursion always has to be a choice. It gets more attention than all the queues combined

Last night the queues on XB1 were Quick Match, Incursion, and Bots Battle. And there’s room for one more queue; the limiting factor is number of players.

Day 1 Alani. That is all.


Let me see if I understood correctly. On one side, you’re suggesting the removal of bots battle because private queue is the same and it’s eating up queue. While on the other one, you’re advising to keep Incursion maps queue (which is adding because normally Incursion is gone on solo/versus queue days)

No one can argue that Incursion has always been the most popular mode but it’s still not a good reason to keep adding additional unnecessary queues. Solo/versus is Incursion most/all the time.


Why not move bots battle to training?
That way you can still match with other players online but it doesn’t take up PvP queue space.

As for solo queue I’d love to have it permanently so long as they don’t let it interfere with QM or incursion.
They do however need to make one change to it; It groups 10 players then divides them between two teams based on s/dq ELO.(pairs stay together of course)
This wold prevent people from trying to make a full premade in sdq.

What I think needs to happen to kevin:

  • Chomp max health bonus increased by 500% but now has diminishing returns based on max health gained through chomp.
  • Increase primary damage by 15%.
  • Reduce secondary damage by 10%.
  • Improve hitbox on Ice Wall and ice wall’s health is doubled.
  • Sublimate now has diminishing returns on battleborn. The first hit stuns for 2s, the 2nd hit 1s and all others are slowed.
  • Sublimate no longer stuns the puller when pulled out of the skill.
  • L3® “Icemaker” now has a heavy slow that lasts 5s and grants CC immunity while in sublimate.

Pretty much what I suggested and the exact reasons too.

  • They need to remove the ability to see the enemy picks in non-draft character select.

[1] In a competitive setting seeing what the enemy team picks either leads to counter picks and counter-counter picks or last second picks.
This prevents counter picks and helps players focus more on their team comp rather than trying to counter what the other team picked.

For draft they need to allow players to select a character and then “Trade” it with a teamate lower in the pick order.

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Putting in my 2 cents on the game and topic here.

Firstly, the game shouldn’t have been released when it was. Fundamentally, releasing anything next to a Blizzard title wasn’t the best move. Now moving beyond that, the game itself wasn’t ready at launch (I didn’t play competitive at launch, so the Day 1 Alani’s as mentioned above I never noticed/saw). Characters are broken (El Dragoon used to be a force of nature, Galiea STILL is stupidly OP, Boulder takes a team and a half to kill and some characters still have things in their Helix options that are like wtf?)

Secondly, the matchmaking/queue system is a jumbled mess, well most of the time. Understanding that the population/community is small is important, but throwing in all these new things to try and attract or distract from that remaining fact is not the way to go about it. Instead of adding new things to distract from the core of the game, how about fixing the core of the game to make it all balanced? For example, why, on green earth, would it be alright for a full team of 100s and above to fight a team of players made up of 10s and below? In ANY queue? It’s not. It’s unacceptable and I understand coding/making games is hard, but this late in the game’s lifecycle it’s hard to find good competition without the 2-3 good five man’s on PS4 dodging each other or curbstomping each and every other team in the process. Also, in regards to the game modes themselves, Incursion is the most popular. I won’t pretend to know why as this is my first time playing anything resembling a MOBA, but Incursion is king. The games are longer (usually) and don’t typically turn into TDM as Face Off and Capture almost always do, sometimes Meltdown does.

Thirdly, on balancing the characters. I get that some characters are generally not as good as others. But for certain characters to go weeks or months without IMMEDIATE balancing changes when they are reported or abused, then there is something wrong. (Beatrix has a lvl 1 Silence that RE-APPLIES itself for some reason, Galilea’s pull and stun combo is still stupid, Boulder takes wayyyy too long to kill and maybe think about adjusting some of Alani’s helix options?). Moving to gear changes, can we please adjust the natures of passives and remove them from skill trees as most people are just abusing the Bolas Target Finder on whatever character has a passive registering as a skill.

Fourth and finally, there are things that should really take priority other than Battleplans where we get two weeks of nothing, just to tell us “we’ll get back to you in another two weeks”. There are still outstanding Story mode bugs and issues, servers DCing people at random before the match even starts or during the match itself. Hell, there was a rough spot where Deande was causing entire games to crash because the game couldn’t handle the holo twin pop in; from my understanding this has been a constant issue speaking with @Nemosis327 before the winter update; two holo twins caused massive lag spikes and/or massive DCs from both teams.

Work on the foundation before adding more. Maps are still similarly unbalanced (with Echelon and Monuments in Incursion being the worst offenders IMO, the former moreso than the latter). We’ve been stuck with 3 maps and “no preference” since the third maps for each mode were released. Maybe add another map to each mode and then fix the mainstay maps.

As a community it’s very frustrating to want to play the game we enjoy when there is no listening from those that make it. There are compromises we can understand, but after being out for nearly a year, there are some things that are unacceptable and it’s being proven day by day with more and more people leaving the game entirely.


Just want to point out, im pretty sure the pvp queues arent limited to four slot. im fairly certain thered be a scroll bar there if they had 5+ queues.

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Well given that I’m a Kelvin main, do please take my input here with a grain of salt, but:

Kelvin definitely doesn’t do too much damage. I’d say his damage is right about where it should be. You’re exaggerating the cooldown on Sublimate (not impossible to get close to that, though, by late game). I disagree with the notion that he shouldn’t be able to 1v1 - I think any character should have 1v1s they can win and those they can’t. July patch Kelvin was in a position where he couldn’t 1v1 at all. The 1 second stun kept him from being able to damage his preferred targets (dreadfully out of position squishies) enough to kill them before they could escape, and oftentimes would get himself killed trying to because he couldn’t escape with Sublimate anymore. Returning him to 2s stuns alleviated that, but he still has to choose carefully who he tries to get into a brawl with or he will suffer for it.


everything you said was absolutely perfect. I have never understood adding some of these game modes they have added, when there were so many huge glaring issues that should have taken priority. Constantly releasing characters when the core characters were not even balanced yet, etc. How did beatrix make it through testing? I am ALL about heroes being very powerful when skill and coordination are required. Simply pressing a button and silencing an entire lane from across the map for an eternity is not skill.

My absolute biggest issue is with gear. Bola’s, skill spike, symbiotic, borrowed timer, firmware, these things simply have to go. Instead of trying to balance them, just make them a pve thing or only able to be used in certain queues. They are literally sucking the life out of being able to enjoy the game in anything other than private matches. We can only 5v5 our friends so many times before we just want to be able to play against other people in a fair game. I am a competitive person, but I know what it is like to win and lose. I am ok with losing by getting outplayed, but when I lose because of gear, that is unacceptable. The only argument people ever has is that if the developers didnt want people using it competitively, they would do something about it. How much longer are you going to give them an excuse?

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Yeah she was like orendi with cc and heals.

No, no, no. Just no. To all of that.

Can you clarify why that would be bad and what you think should be done to improve him?

You can’t add slow to sublimate, even if it is on third hit. Diminishing returns should apply to all stuns not just his and then balanced according to those changes. His primary and secondary auto attacks don’t seem like a problem, what makes him op are his skills. His attacks could do 5 damage and it wouldn’t fix the things that make him op. Chomp damage increase, why? It is one of the hardest hitting single target skills in the game. It doesn’t make sense to increase its strength early game, that will just make it easier to build up max health. Ice wall is just the right size, it can completely block most bottlenecks and it is already difficult for one character to break before it expires.

I agree with the snail trail helix needing attention but I don’t think adding cc immunity is going to make it much more viable as it is already one the best escapes in the game and stun is to important.

Don’t pull them until the skill expires. Easier to hit him that way too.

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I think you may have misread a bit.

Slow replaces stun after you hit two BB. You are already only able to apply CC to each BB once per sublimate.
eg: you sub and hit 3 enemy BB, BB1 is stunned for 2s, BB2 is stunned for 1s, BB3 is slowed(medium) for 3s but not stunned.

Chomp is not getting a damage bonus, the bonus is to max health gained.

The changes to primary and secondary are to encourage using his primary a bit more since right now most good kelvins never use primary since secondary is better at almost everything.(Slightly less single target damage but much harder to miss, AOE and slight pushback.)

The icewall change is because it can be destroyed almost as soon as you use it by 1-2 dps.
Doubling it’s health would help it stay up a bit longer against 1-2 people hitting it but would still let it be destroyed almost instantly if a team focuses it.
Also size isn’t changed, the hitbox part is regarding the inconstancy of the stun/placement of it when casting icewall.

The slow helix change is to give that helix a bit more viability and cement sublimate as an escape that playstyle.
(Note: There is more than one way to play a character, while I don’t believe it is best used as an escape there are those that do.)

While I agree stuns(/repeat CC of the same type on the same BB in a short time) should have diminishing returns this was about kelvin, not global cc changes.

Of the 3 S tier tanks Kelvin is ranked lowest for a reason. It takes people that know how to enter and exit to work him properly.

The stun sucks when it happens to you and it’s a crucial moment, but in all honesty most Kelvin’s use it primarily as escape when they dive in because they think it’s their “get out of jail free card”. Anyone who has ever played Kelvin has done it, anyone who says they haven’t is lying. If you have some sort of pull, silence or pop up CC, then Kelvin is countered and he is countered HARD. As long as the person with the CC mentioned knows when and how to use it. If I see an enemy Kelving and I’m playing Shayne or Ghalt, I hang back and wait for the Sublimate, then hit the pull as Kelvin tries flying by and too far. Boom, that’s usually a dead Kelvin. if he doesn’t die, then at least he knows that he can’t just Sublimate all willy nilly.

Hard counters to Kelvin are: Shayne, Ghalt, Galilea, Rath, Beatrix, Montana and a good majority of the cast simply make it hard for the big Ice Lug to simply exist.

As far as his melee combos go, Kelvin is hardly a finisher, he needs his team to do a lot, if his team is not good at supporting him, even the best of Kelvin’s struggle. His melee ground smash is fine where it is, no buffs or nerfs needed to it. And the icewall has such a chance of backfiring on Kelvin that it encourages practice, not haphazard use of it. It takes a lot of skill to land that consistently for chain stuns.