The duration would have to be reasonably limited, but it would be much more reliable. That seems like a fair trade to me.
I feel like it would shift the gameplay style just a little to picking and choosing when to use it. Moreover, it would give him a bit more ability to engage at closer range, which they seem to want him to be able to do.
thatās fair, and I guess he can still be driven from it
maybe 10 secs with 20 secs cooldown or something
If it were to block all damage, 10 seconds would be much too long. Iām thinking more like half that. Better solution might be to have it provide damage resistance instead, say 30%, perhaps upgradable.
If it were 10 seconds on a 20 second cooldown with 30% DR (which sounds awfully strongā¦maybe too strong), a duration upgrade might be overkill, but you could do a damage resist upgrade instead (to 50%).
hmnā¦im not sure 10 secs would be THAT OP
say you go for 10% CD reduction that means you have 9 seconds exposed (it takes 1 sec to set the shield up)
considering how squishy toby is, how large his crit spot is, and how much of any fire is going to crit him, that sounds fair to me.
especially since enemies can walk through the shield, aoe attacks penetrate it, and it basically secures toby in place as a massive āflank meā sign if your team isnāt solid at covering you
I still think the idea of using square to burn thruster charges to heal shield/ charge railgun Is that most balanced buff (maybe could also use it to burn thrusters to power up his ultimate whilst that is charging or something?)
but I understand thatās probably also the most coding-intensiveā¦
Are you joking?
Thorn snd marquis are small targets but Toby hits WAY harder and a single shot mows down entire mobs with the larger shot and penetrate helixes.
It always goes like this.
1). I notice a thorn or marquis sniping me.
2) I turn and fire one or two shots at them.
3) they turn tail and run since the massive rail gun blast brought them to a sliver of health almost immediately while Iām barely hurt from multiple shots from them.
On the shieldā¦honestly by the time its destroyed you can just redeploy it unless the team is REALLY focusing on you.
But instead of toggle able just make it so you can press the skill while shield is deployed to heal the shield by draining your personal shields. No need for permatoggles.
My real issue is how useless the āincreased shield sizeā skill is. I mean its cool to now fire in any direction but by that level you need to buff the shield health to keep up with enemies doing more damage. Also its not any taller so heās still hit just as easy plus lanes arenāt that wide so its a waste there too.
Maybe make it block enemies from walking through too to act as an actual barrier?
Thatās assuming you can locate, aim and fire quickly and accurately enough.
One of the biggest benefits Thorn and Marq have against Toby is the ability to hide. Theyāre both very slim characters, and neither have a giant red LOOK AT ME laser coming off their weapons, or giant blue LOOK AT ME billboard that they must fire through.
All things being equal, theyāre going to knock down your shield before you get the second shot off.
When its both thorn and marquis firing on Toby at the same time sure. But one on one they almost always lose to Toby except for super early game. At least in my experience.
Their small frame is balanced by how massive Tobyās rail gun blasts are. Especially with the mutation to make them even bigger.
Toby isnāt indestructible but his firepower offsets that. Occasionally his shield will go down but then either redeploy it or retreat for a moment with boosters.
At range he dominates. Its up close that he struggles.
weārehaving such different experiences
I find that even at early game 3 marquis shots drop my shield, and he can almost always hit a corner of your shield whilst out of your sight (unless hes an idiot)
same c thorn
Oscar mike can drop a fragcendiary and take out the shield in one hitā¦its a defensive skill that is removed or negated by almost literally every offensive skill
Maybe its because of where you are perching with Toby. Also its primary function is to power up the rail gun shots.
Marquis can drop it quickly yes but by the second shot heās usually got a rail gun in his face keeping him from actually destroying the shield.
And as I said its less of an issue when you can immediately redeploy the shield or retreat while they are dealing with the shield.
I am a Toby main and I do find that his shield can later in matches become almost useless. This is not to say that you should not drop his shield and fight from behind it but his shield is destroyed way to fast to make good use of it. I would say that maybe giving his shield a health buff and a cool down reduction will make it easier for you to survive behind it later in the match. Though Toby is actually a very good sniper and when you power up his Attack Speed and use his shield he can be just as effective at sniping as Thorn and Marques. Really by later game you should be pushing with your partners and using the environment to help you lock down with Toby who with his Arc Mines (Take Slow always. Stun is not that good in my opinion.) you can control the lanes, stop melee players with his mines and then set them up for your partners to finish off or use your shield and quick firing to do the job. Toby has a high ceiling in good hands, and with some love from Gear Box he can live up to the name, The Destroyer a lot better.
The shield is lacking for PvP as both playing as toby and against. Especially when I use Marquis. Late game my marquis build is centered around crit damage and attack speed. I can often destroy tobyās shield before he has a chance to get that first charged railgun shot through it by just spamming pistol shots downfield at it. If the toby player has turned tail to run immediately he has a chance at surviving. If they stay and still try to trade shots with me I pretty much always win because tobyās critical hit zone feels huge compared to other characters. It seriously feels like if you just hit the cockpit at all you get a crit which means you drop a few quick shots to deplete his shield then heās basically hosed because his large crit location is also pretty much center mass on his model.
Improving the shield to make it more usable will help a little. But itās not really his biggest issue for PvP atm personally. Funny enough tho atleast to me he feels like one of the better PvE characters because AI is too stupid to exploit the issues with his character model and hitbox.
Toby is a poor manās Thorn.
His shield gives his location away instantly so sniping with him is a huge liability. His mine is basically a destructible buff-less version of Thornās blight that does half the damage in half the area. If you compare Toby to Thorn, he does nothing better, and everything worse.
I donāt get slow or stun. I get arc vortex so they get stuck being tossed around in place, easy target and disorients them XD.
I usually get at an angle in meltdown where I can snipe almost the entire map and rarely have shield problems.
Except Tobyās projectile is way bigger, hits way harder, his shield means heās not as vulnerable as thorn, and as for grenades Iām not familiar enough with blight to compare but his grenades are great both for clearing minions and for driving off/disabling other players.
Id say its the other way around honestly.
Seriously I always dominate with Toby, does nobody else actually PLAY him?!
I main Toby and even after I finish Killing the Rails and master him I will still main him. I have had plenty of games where I have lead the team in kills, least amount of deaths and destroyed the most minions and most important of all we won (cause none of that means anything if you lose). I have used both Thorn and Marques. Thorn is very good though I have a harder time hitting with her arrows as their hit box is very small. Marquesā¦what negative can I say about him other than he gives me the hardest time catching and killing him, but man when you kill him you feel good.
Nah Toby is a great character but his flaws are there. His hit box is just smaller than Montanas and his slow speed makes it hard for him to get away. But when you keep Tobyās back to a wall (best near a turret) and able to control a area he can dominate. The other day I was playing on Overgrowth and we were being pushed into by the other team at the first sentry location. I was able to mount myself near the thumper turret and the hp machine and use my charged rail gun shots to push the enemy out without little help. Toby when he controls a area can dominate like no oneās business.
Toby is all about picking your fights and knowing when to turn tail and fight another day. IF you can get a good support character on your team (good luck when playing with randoms, everyone wants to be the āheroā) you have a better chance to push when using Toby. But if your are the āsupportā character on your team then just stay back and provide cover fire to your team mates. When Toby has a sniper position and is not getting checked he can become the most dangerās thing on the field.
actually, its just bigger: a fully charged arrow hits just as hard as a fully charged railgun roundā¦and applies a poison effectā¦and makes you take more damage from other attacksā¦and doesnāt need a skill to work.
Thorn does take a bit more skill to use right now, doesnāt need a skill to reliably hit snipe-snipe warfare against decent players
also, frankly:Thorn has a useable ultimate that is VERY good, and yeh blight is outright better than arc mine except it cant be used as a stun to mess up melee chars (which means you sacrifice lane clear ability)
Donāt get me wrong: I love toby, I mained him in the beta and he is my secondary char in the main game, and he CAN do very well, but if I play as him then play as thorn or marquis, they do more or less the same thing better, and fixing his shield+ult would remove that and give him more of his own niche
I mean, I think hes the worst character to have a bad ult, because his shield should pretty much always be out whilst fighting, so he basically only has one skill to use mid-fight
I dunno Iāve been using thorn and it feels like blight and arrows do virtually no damage versus rail gun and arc mines.
Maybe because unlike thorn, Toby can afford to fully charge every shot he fires whereas thorn takes like three full seconds to charge an arrow.
Like I just canāt drop Montana as thorn but I can mow him down as Toby.
Bigger shots that can he rapid fired at full charge are s huge advantage over tiny arrows harder to aim that take forever to charge.
On arc grenades, again I go for vortex not slow or stun. So enemies are black holed into the grenade.
Fully agree with this. Plus, in my experience, people that try to rush me through my shield usually die, because their critical spot just keeps getting closer and bigger as they do so; and i build for critsā¦
I mainly play Toby at mid-to-close range past level 4 (slow mines), run with my boosters, rinse and repeat; though there are exceptions if the team is heavy melee. Heās hardly useless at close range; just not the best choice. Not even within shouting distance of great at close range actually; but it CAN be done effectively.
I do agree Toby needs a buff to his shield but neither Thorn nor Toby are snipers.
Thorn is a mid/long range player with the ability to snipe and Toby is a Sentry that can do great damage from a distance. Tobyās meant to hold a position and protect other players that are in that area, but his shield doesnāt really allow him to do that right now.
I havenāt played Toby yet but my brother does, and consistantly get top damage or close to top next to me in our matches, and the biggest thing he feels toby needs is just a health buff on his shield. But then again, he thinkās Toby is OP right now but I often hear about him complaining that his shield gets drained to fast lol.