First of all, awesome work, thanks for what you’re doing for all of us! One question, though, that I’m not sure about (I might have missed it during the thread): is it planned at one point to get the capacity to add or replace meshes in the files themselves through your editor?
Ouhh, I don’t know.
Definitely, I want to do that with OBJ (and possibly other mesh formats), along with the ability to edit all other things related to Homeworld.
Can I sell my latest intern’s soul to you? Please? Pretty please?
You have interns?
I do. Annoying brats or fantastic helpers (though my latest one is more of the first category) for the lab work… Oh, if I may, when you get onto the mesh part, would it be possible to get a higher polycount limit than the one from the older CFHod? That limit forced me to use multimeshes back then and those do not end nicely after going through HODOR.
I will keep that in mind, thank you.
What was the polycount limit from the older CFHod?
When using my GTX 860M:
But when using my Intel HD Graphics 4600:
Is there something wrong with the tool or my graphic driver?
Probably something wrong with the lighting.
I only tested it with my AMD Radeon HD 5770, but I heard that the Intel drivers do very bad with OpenGL/OpenTK.
Sorry, but I really have no idea how to fix this or what exactly causes this.
Maybe there are more people with an Intel card that can try this?
EDIT: Do other 3d applications that use OpenGL work correctly? I think you can be sure that my shaders are causing the problem.
EDIT 2: I think @BitVenom could help us with that, because he has much knowledge of GLSL and OpenGL in general.
Well, I think I can run HWRM using my intel card without any problem (though it will be pretty slow)
I did… 80% of the dev for HWRM on a tiny Dell laptop with an Intel 4200 - and it actually ran quite well. It may just be some initial state stuff, or issues with exactly how you are doing your shaders, etc. Without logs or error tracking, it is hard to say.
If everything is done in a single pass (and I think that’s the case here) - then I’d suggest something is up with your light data not getting where it belongs… Should be very very easy to debug.
Around 65K triangles, IIRC. Thing is, I have inherited bigger models from a partner team and I have in reserve even bigger things (though the latter are not in my main plans), so for the half-dozen big models, I was forced to cut them into two or more sub-meshes. I’m seeing with my main modeller if he can cut down the unnecessary details from these models so I could redo the whole process without the multimesh trick, but if you can offer an alternative solution, that would save him quite some time. ^_^;
HODOR isn’t going to like a DAE feeding it meshes that big regardless - PayDay’s excellent UI or not. You’ve got normal maps, advanced shaders, etc… Maybe consider a mesh of that quality a Hi-poly and bake it down a bit? It’s not hard to get a VERY sexy model at half (or less) that polycount with a few common steps…
Oh wow, so that’s how game development works.
Could it be that the Intel drivers don’t support structs in fragment shaders?
Because that’s how I handle my light data.
If I had an Intel card, probably.
@506933395 Are your Intel drivers up to date?
I think that was the limit in Homeworld pre 2.0 too. HODOR now splits them up automatically if they are too big if I understood correctly. But you should try to avoid that I think.
EDIT: About the lighting problem; I could implement a checkbox that disables lighting, this would make this tool useable for Intel users. But of course that would just be a temporary solution.
What GL are you using? I doubt very much that structs are the issue - though with HWRM I avoided them mostly, and kept it to Arrays…
I can define major and minor in the GLControl constructor.
Major is 3 and minor is 0, the GLSL version is
I’m not sure if you meant that.
EDIT: @506933395 I could add some debugging error codes, you would have to run the editor in the console and post the log here.
I think HWRM is 3.3 and #330 (if I recall?).
That’s, as indicated, Plan B, but I’m in a kinda weird situation for my mod. I inherited the caretaking of a much older mod something like eight or nine years ago, where one guy named czacen pretty much did everything for a self-sufficient mod. When I ported it to HWRM 1.0 last year, it gave it some publicity in the fandom and I was allowed to use a huge series of models made by another team that made their mod for Freespace 2, a space sim. Awesome quality and everything, but I was still alone and while I can code my way through HW 2 and HWRM, I’m not really capable where it comes to do actual editing and texturing of 3D files beyond removing sub-meshes and the stuff in Blender. And even then, those models covered two and a half out of four factions, so when a modeller joined me, his main job was (and still is) to create the final models needed.
So I’m looking at various solutions, mainly PayDay’s UI, if it could allow us to use the raw models or, when my modeller finds the time for it, removing the definitely useless details from the ships (and I know for a fact that many details, like the interior of the hangars, are useless) or - and I know this will make you cringe, my apologies in advance - taking a few weeks to learn how to do the .dae the right way, through 3DS Max with all the things done the way you guys explained before. So that’s why I’m testing the waters to see if the .obj integration was planned and if it wouldn’t cause too many issues.
Though, FYI, if you are interested in the limitations of HODOR and the engine, I got a 58k triangles ship to work quite smoothly ingame after getting its .dae through HODOR today. That could give an indication to other people how far they can hope to go, I guess. Thanks for the tip, though, I’m going to see if I can try something else I just thought of while writing this!
Ohh! I love that game!
When I was a kid, it was one of the most important games for me, along with Homeworld.
I am actually in a playthrough currently, using the Open Source version with all of these amazing enhancements.
Yeah, I can imagine, it’s one hell of a superb game, with a wonderful engine to mod, from what I heard (though I haven’t modded on it). If you’re curious, the mod that shared its models with our team is the one from www.wcsaga.com, which has a huge campaign.
It is really important to note that triangle count is NOT the limiting factor. Our triangle ‘index buffers’ are shorts. 16bit. So the actual limiting factor is unique verts - it has to be less than ~60k. The ONLY way to be sure that is the case is to limit your ships to 20k triangles (so that no matter what, even with no sharing, you are under the indexing limit). Sure, 58k may work, because of a bunch of shared verts - but it may also not work with even a minor tweak.
No reason not to push the limits And after a year of trying, I still haven’t convinced many people to make ‘better’ art (in terms of details vs quality trade-offs) - and some notable Mod authors are still trying to cram buttloads of 4k textures on a ship that’s no bigger than a frigate…