Torgue sticky damage calculation?

I always thought the damage calculation for torgue stickies was something like: (floor(%sticky_dmg^num_shots_hit)*dmg_per_shot)*shots_hit

I have a torgue rifle with 30 dmg and a 28 round magazine with 5% increase for sticky. This means if i hit every shot, the damage would be around 3293. I don’t seem to get anywhere near that with similar level non resistant enemies.

Is my math correct or are torgue stckies claculated some other way?

Why would the formula be %Sticky_dmg^Num_shots_hits ??

It seem way more logical ot be %Sticky_dmg * Num_shots_hits

That would entail that hitting every single shot of your magazine would overall boost the damage by 5% *28 = 140%

In short, if all of your sticky bomb hit (I’m not accounting for crit) the resulting damage should be 30 * 28 * (1+1.4) * (Other modifier)

In your formula, the % is acting on shots hit, not damage. It is saying that the multiplier is 5% OF how many of your shots hit. That seems illogical.

In my formula, the damage of each pellet is increased 5% of base for every shot hit.

I will admit though, based on what I’m seeing I think your math is what is being used. Can anyone confirm?

Consider the affix “sticky” as a simple multiplicative bonus on the end damage that work as I said.

Weapon Damage * Crit modifier (if apply) * Other modifier * Sticky bonus (calculated at the moment of the explosion)

It’s how the game work usually on formula.

It might be even worst, and the sticky bonus might be additive on the category “other modifiers” that already include your class bonus and guardian rank bonus

That’s terrible if true. It means that I’m only getting 3% straight increase on a shotgun. Unless your’re exploiting with flak, there’s no reason to use stickies.

False. Shotgun is counted by pellet.

Hence why they had to nerf it to 3% considering min maxed shotgun shot up to 18 pellet (+54% pet hit).

Torgue shotgun are top tiers weapon with class that can artificially boost the mag size, since they can stack up hundred of sticky bomb on annointed and boss and trigger a nuclear explosion.

My personnal experience shew that, at some point, too many sticky bomb cause some bug, and they might not explode at all

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Ok I think I get it. So, barring any other factors, my torgue AR doing 30 dmg for 28 shots with 5% sticky bonus will do 1176 damage for the whole magazine.

Do I have that right?

Now that we have the dummy target, has anybody tried testing the damage on their torgue weapon. I was messing around with a torgue shotgun that only has 4 rounds. It seems like one sticky shot does less damage than one impact shot. If I stick all 4 rounds, each round gets close to the damage of an impact shot. Overall, I do less damage with the sticky shots. This may not be true if I had 10 rounds, but it’s a shotgun so that isn’t going to happen. This doesn’t seem right. Can anybody else confirm?

The shotgun is one of the ones that only shoots one high damage pellet. Maybe the sticky bonus is only good for shotguns with multiple pellets.

You are absolutely right. Torgue stickies are not that good.

I posted the following on reddit:

Now that we have the target dummy, it’s easy to test this. For most weapons I’m seeing less damage per shot if any less than 9 to 10 stickies are on the target.

I have a 4 round kielbasa (single round version). One shot does 2364 dmg in impact.

The sticky damage:
1 shot: 165 on impact, 1654 when detonated
2 shots: 165 on impact 1737 each when detonate
3 shots: 165 on impact 1820 each when detonated
4 shots: 165 on impact 1902 each when detonated

I then tried with a rifle. One impact shot does 523. No skills or class mods, the damage on the weapon card also says 523. The card says this rifle will do +5% dmg per sticky. Sticky damage is 37 on impact and then for each when detonated:

1 shot: 366
2 shots: 385
3 shots: 403
4 shots: 421
5 shots: 440
6 shots: 458
7 shots: 476
8 shots: 498
9 shots: 513
10 shots: 531
11 shots: 549
12 shots: 568
13 shots: 586
14 shots: 604
15 shots: 623

28 shots: 861

Now there’s much rounding that happens in borderlands, but it does seem the formula dmg per shot=base dmg * (1 + (shots stuck to target * % increase on weapon card)) is being followed. However, it’s calculated off of a much lower base damage of 366. This means without skills that give ammo, most torgue weaponry of the shotgun and pistol type are incapable of doing more damage with stickies than regular impact mode and even if they did, the bonus isn’t all that great.

Worse, the base damage the % will be applied to is hidden.

Finally, I tested a 425x6 torgue shotgun.

Impact did 276 dmg per pelley. Sticky did 278 per pellet WITH ALL 12 PELLETS STUCK. Wtf? What is the point of this mode if you aren’t moze or fl4k?

This seems like it’s a mistake.

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Brilliant work.
I don’t think the people above understood you.
I also wondered if the percentage increase was compounding and hence exponential.
Eg if the bonus was 10%, one sticky would give you 110%, then 2 stickies would give you 121%, then 133%, 146% etc.
But your experiment has proven it is linear.
110% for 1, 120% for 2, 130% for 3.
And even worse, it’s not calculated off the base damage on the card, but some value well below this. According to your experiment, you didn’t break even to impact until you had 9-10 stickies…

This is disappointing !

It clearly says “by X % per sticky attached” on Torgue guns so it being anything but linear would be an oddity compared to the crit damage Jakobs guns get. That’s a payoff for their massive recoil. Torgue isn’t like that. those usually have multiple stickies though.

Using the Sticky firing mode increases your fire rate but lowers the damage per shot. The explosion with 1 sticky is 66% of the listed damage but I forget what the initial hit percentage is. From memory you need to reach a 45% bonus to be ahead of damage per hit of impact ammo.

That, of course, doesn’t hold true for DPS because of the increased fire rate (and I’m not sure of that increase) so it’s the same basic idea as x2 weapons: It uses more ammo than the standard version but also has a higher DPS (in most cases).

It’s not. The percentile bonuses used to be higher (and some still are in offline mode). These weapons were among the first to be generically trashing Graveward and as a result they got nerfed hard. Real hard.

The simple fact is people were using Sticky ammo with the pre-nerf percentages on any character using a +40% clip size relic and then crit swapping with an Unforgiven for up to a 430ish % crit bonus. You could wipe Graveward out in a few seconds with a green assault rifle.

Out came the nerfbat.

Moze can still 1-shot General Traunt with a good Quickie after jumping out of Iron Bear for 5 seconds worth of free ammo. If you’re willing to use an Unforgiven you can still nail Graveward with a single clip from an Alchemist or Burning DP stranger if you have the right shield and grenade. He’ll be dead by the time the ground levels out.

Using other characters you pretty much have to crit swap with an unforgiven to get even close to Moze level performance.

That being said, there is actually a timer on all stickies and if you don’t detonate them before then they all go off without doing bonus damage. Even with enough ammo regen to be running virtually limitless clip size there’s still an upper limit to how many stickies you can plant decided by the weapon’s fire rate.

These formulas seem to work:

StickyImpact = NormalDmg × 0.07

StickyExplosion = NormalDmg × 0.7 × (1 + Bonus × (N-1))

Bonus = The sticky damage bonus per bullet listed on the card (tough luck if it’s anointed, then it’s not listed)

N = number of stuck projectiles

Note: these formulas are not considering C-C-Combo. With that, NormalDmg and StickyImpact will always have at least × 1.02 Dmg, but the Explosions do not. If you wait a second after the last shot before reloading, it’ll be

StickyExplosion = NormalDmg / 1.02 × 0.7 × (1 + Bonus × (N-1))

This is because C-C-Combo adds stacks of +2% per gun shot to gun damage. The explosions count as gun damage, so they will receive the damage bonus from the last few shots before reloading, however they don’t count as gun shots, so will not trigger C-C-Combo themselves.

Example of a reload directly after shooting:

TorgueStickyCCCombo

Explosion 1-2 had still 2 stacks, 3-4 had 1 stack, 5-7 had none: 678 = 100%, 692 = 102%, 705 = 104%. So with C-C-Combo, your explosions will do even less damage compared to regular impact bullets.

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Not gunna lie on this one, it’s interesting but in practice the exact math kind of doesn’t matter on this one.

We end up spraying an enemy with stickies until our clip runs out or to our best guess on “enough to kill it”; it’s not an exact science ;).